Forum Topic

Sasha Johnson ~ Where Are The BLM Protesters Now?

Police hunt four young black men over shooting of Sasha JohnsonWhy are the BLM protesters silent now?  Could it be because Sasha Johnson was shot by a black gang? They would be rioting if this woman had been shot by a gang of white men. https://mol.im/a/9615725Labour's Diane Abbott has been accused of 'inflaming divides' by insisting Sasha may have been shot because she 'stood up for racial justice' Well that went a bit wrong didn't it Diane? 🙄

Sue Hammond ● 1715d38 Comments

Ed. I agree that he should not have been asked to prove he was British. My point was that this arose because of a data entry error rather than a citizenship issue per se, and I was wondering if this would have been the case if the same error had happened to me, a white British citizen.There are actually a number of issues:Transparency admitting and correcting errors;What defines citizenship;How one proves citizenship;Do the processes treat all equally.Are the processes more difficult in the UK because we don't have identity cards.Making being born in the UK would make it easier but then there is the danger of citizenship tourism then but I'm sure there's a way around that. A big issue is not having better independent regulation of the home office. I can see a similar scandal to the Windrush one arising in the future with EU immigrants to the UK, although I suspect pressure from the EU might limit its impact ...

Michael Ixer ● 1706d

"I don't see this as a "British" issue in this case, there doesn't seem to be any dispute he was really a British citizen"Michael the article clearly states: "Mr Adenuga was asked to supply a list of documents similar to those demanded of Windrush scandal victims, including pictures of his parents’ wedding and their marriage certificate."It looks like they were asking him to prove his citizenship as birth does not guarantee it. Until it does these occurances will continue to happen.People born here should not have to prove citizenship but that is the current situation until the law is changed. Political parties do not want to do that!

Ed Robinson ● 1706d

Ed. Bit of finger trouble there! I was going to say the I suspect the main issue with police computer systems is the competence of those operating them. This seems to be a case of the old "garbage in = garbage out". I don't see this as a "British" issue in this case, there doesn't seem to be any dispute he was really a British citizen just that the bureaucrats wouldn't admit their mistake.  Interesting that you quote the NI/GFA example: sounds like the Home Office still have one of those 1950s signs over their door: "no Irish, blacks or dogs"? (Well, pet passports are now a problem as well ...)

Michael Ixer ● 1707d

Wd I suspect the main problem with the

Michael Ixer ● 1707d

Michael it looks like this poor guy had to deal with two of the UK's best in the world institutions.We know there are issues with the police  computer systems so it could just be incompetence but there is also an issue with them being transparent when mistakes are made so difficult to tell.With regard to the "white British" question there have been issues where the home office just haven't understood the legislation regarding NI and the GFA which they had to correct with much embarrassment. Refusals and Lengthy delays were experienced.It is the "British" part that is the real question here and where the issue lies. What do you mean by British? Not the cultural stuff but the right to citizenship.Most newspapers and people think if you are born here you are British, but that is not the case and hasn't been for decades. Various governments of different parties have not changed that.Brexit will obviously increase the instances but the opposition parties tend to be all aligned when it comes to this type of legislation and have been quiet for decades as has the media until recently.If you look back at various nationality acts you will see changes to exclude overseas territories for fear of HK and then a reversal to include the Falklands for example. Looking at the acts who could think anything else?The sensible thing would be to allow those born here to claim citizenship. There will then be those that will mention people travelling to the UK to give birth. If that is the fear then the Home Office should prove they are not citizens rather than the individual who are born here trying to prove they are.The Home Office has all the necessary information to do. The values of fair play should apply.In short fixed the system, in this case the acts of Parliament, but that won't get headlines or become a party policy!

Ed Robinson ● 1707d

This is an odd case. I'd have to say that I can't see this happening to a white British person so this does seem like racism at the police and Home Office given the facts presented in this article; however, it's obviously started from a mistake or incompetence and one can see similar circumstances when this type of error might disadvantage EU citizens with settled status in future years.  Perhaps if the compensation had to be paid from their pension funds those serving the public would be less prone to making and - more importantly - rectifying such errors expeditiously?https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/met-police-femi-adenuga-database-b1819277.html

Michael Ixer ● 1708d

In order to provoke further "rioting" - or even peaceful demonstrations by BLM, would it not require that Sasha Johnson had been shot by the police?For all the effort that they have gone to, it seems a simple message has not got through to everyone.

Michael Winstanley ● 1710d

wow.....

Matt Palmer ● 1711d

Richard carter most white people were brought up with a stiff upper lip. Just because white people do their best to control their temper over a death. Obviously black people make a big thing about it. What about all the young men killed in both war's how did their parents think loosing so many and how many were so young they didn't know what they were even fighting for. BUT THESE YOUNG MEN DO. Drugs or something.

Barbara Stevens ● 1712d

Drugs Barabara and the UK's foreign policy.

Ed Robinson ● 1713d

Oops. That should have read: "On the topic of nation state actions and the checks on those ..."

Michael Ixer ● 1713d

what is the connection between the UK failure in Afghanistan to do with Sasha Johnson?

Barbara Shillabeer ● 1713d

Interesting articles on how the Afghan war fuelled an increase in opium."The combined level of heroin consumption in European countries is estimated at around 85-90 mt.20 Within Europe,four countries dominate, namely the United Kingdom.."https://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/WDR_2010/1.2_The_global_heroin_market.pdfhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-opium-poppy-production/https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jan/09/how-the-heroin-trade-explains-the-us-uk-failure-in-afghanistan

Ed Robinson ● 1713d

Five arrested on suspicion of attempted murder of activist Sasha Johnsonhttp://news.sky.com/story/five-arrested-on-suspicion-of-attempted-murder-of-activist-sasha-johnson-12317495

Sue Hammond ● 1713d

Richard, thanks for introducing some facts.

Michael Ixer ● 1713d

LBC have just announced that 5 young men have been arrested in connection to the shooting. Good.

Sue Hammond ● 1713d

Interesting if you look at calendar year then the figures are down for 2020. Domestic murders are lower than I thought looking at the breakdown.Worth a readhttps://www.onlondon.co.uk/the-number-of-homicides-in-london-fell-in-2020-what-explains-why-these-sad-statistics-change/31 of them were categorised as domestic violence offences, included 12 resulting from stabbing.44 of the homicides took place in a dwelling and 71 of them on the street.Of the 126 victims, 14 were teenagers and 40 were aged between 20 and 24.31 of the homicides were assessed as “gang-related”.In 14 cases the killer used a firearm, and in 71, a knife.

Ed Robinson ● 1714d

Thanks Richard very interesting and as you say worrying.

Andy Pike ● 1714d

Thank you for your commonsense response Richard

Maxine Campbell ● 1714d

Sorry, should have added the source of those figures: it was https://www.statista.com/statistics/862984/murders-in-london/

Richard Carter ● 1714d

Andy, the short answer is that those figures for London only aren't available.What is clear is that recently, there has been an increase in murders in London: the 3-year average for 2010/11 to 2012/13 was 107.7 and the corresponding average for 2017/18 to 2019/30 was 143.3,q one third increase. That is worrying.

Richard Carter ● 1714d

RichardCan those figures be broken down for London? What are the figures for the more recent years? Is there any change? In the last 3 years the instances of knife and gun deaths seem to have risen, certainly in London, is that reflected in the figures or us it just increased reporting on news.

Andy Pike ● 1714d

On the topic of the checks the action states, an interesting ruling by the European Court of Human Rights on the mass surveillance by the UK's GCHQ breaching privacy rights ...https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252501356/GCHQ-bulk-interception-programme-breached-privacy-rights-Strasbourg-court-court-rules

Michael Ixer ● 1714d

"BLM should recognise that the majority  of black people that are being stabbed and shot are being attacked by black people and they should be protesting about that," says Sue Hammond.Well, the majority of white people killed, were killed by other white people,* so maybe you should be protesting about that?The point is that most murders take place within the communities in which they occur, and complaining about black-on-black violence is used as a deflection device: whataboutery in its most obvious form.* Between 2009/10 and 2017/18: UK-wide figures show that, of white people killed, 92% were killed by a white perpetrator, whilst 55% of black people killed were killed by a black perpetrator, 33% by a white perpetrator (https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/myth-black-black-violence-south-18430716)

Richard Carter ● 1714d

i'm not sure what your point it here. Sasha was shot by an unknown person so why would BLM be doing anything aside from having a vigil for her? There are murders by and against black men and anyone who commits a crime should pay, i agree with that, however to start with your inflammatory comment about why aren't BLM screaming might actually be because they, like others, are waiting to see what may have happened. This is whataboutery at it's best. I suppose you also believe that we no longer have institutional racism too.

Maxine Campbell ● 1714d

No Sue, the Ryan Air incident is a reminder to what length states will go to if not checked.Sometimes you have to fill in the gaps yourself :)"UK prosecutors admit destroying key emails in Julian Assange case"https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/10/uk-prosecutors-admit-destroying-key-emails-from-julian-assange-case

Ed Robinson ● 1714d

Ed, do you expect the factual truth to come out about Dr Kelly's death because I don't.  Another cover-up, coming up.The trouble is that whistleblowers often have punitive measures taken against them so it's no wonder so many scandals go uncovered for many years, if at all.

Sue Hammond ● 1714d

Unfortunately I can only see various conspiracy theories increasing due to the recent changes in the law and past wrongdoings going unpunished.Freedom of information is also an issue. We often find out about historical events from the USA.WikiLeaks did shine some light on the merky side of our state - but there is not much incentive for other journalists to do the same with Julian Assange locked up and Blair on Morning TV! (There is a film coming out later this year about Doctor Kelly's death. I will keep an open mind on that one.)Is the UK undercover policing relationship scandal still going through the courts?The only thing to stop conspiracy theories is more transparency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_undercover_policing_relationships_scandal

Ed Robinson ● 1714d

@MattStating a fact is not celebrating that fact.

Sue Hammond ● 1715d

I think thats a little harsh Matt.

Andy Pike ● 1715d

you are celebrating that she was shot by a black person, plain and simple.

Matt Palmer ● 1715d

@MattWhat are you going on about? Who is celebrating that she was shot? Don't be so stupid. I am pointing out that BLM should recognise that the majority  of black people that are being stabbed and shot are being attacked by black people and they should be protesting about that.

Sue Hammond ● 1715d

I think it's a fair point that Sue has made particularly with Abbots interjection that would gave stirred up violence. Police statement says rival gangs with a drive by shooting into the house and this young lady literally getting caught in cross fire. You do have to wonder about BLM when more young black people are killed by rival gangs than by police or other law enforcement agencies.Another point no one has mentioned a party during lock down rule of 6.

Andy Pike ● 1715d

Well said Matt.

Caroline Whitehead ● 1715d

"BLM scream about racial discrimination, victimisation, stop and search plus a host of other race related matters "all of which are genuine issues, so why wouldn't they?I find it pretty crass to 'celebrate' the fact that a young woman was shot by a member of her own race rather than a white person. You must feel so proud.

Matt Palmer ● 1715d

@BarbaraWell Abott never knows what she's talking about. 🙄 Nobody knows atm but there is speculation that this was a gang related shooting but Johnson was not targeted. The point is that BLM scream about racial discrimination, victimisation, stop and search plus a host of other race related matters but do not admit that the vast majority of black people who are murdered are killed by black men.  Why are they not screaming about this?

Sue Hammond ● 1715d

Very true, there are too many protests.  In the end do they know what they are really protesting about, just a lot of shouting. This just causes more trouble, look what has happened now, seems the shooting wasn't even anything to do with BLM. But Diana Abbott doesn't know what she's talking about anyway.

Barbara Stevens ● 1715d

I don't think that it is yet clear who shot Sasha Johnson or why.

Caroline Whitehead ● 1715d