Forum Topic

Leaseholders Together Rally 15 July

Big demo planned for July, for details see herehttps://nationalleaseholdcampaign.org/leaseholderstogether/Even if you are not a leaseholder (I'm not) you may want to turn up. Currently, it's a terribly unfair system, legally and financially.

D. E. Buckner ● 1800d15 Comments

Andy. Fair comment I haven't lived in a leasehold property for nearly three decades. I know the law has been proved and the tribunal now exists. However, some freeholders push the law and planning regulations to the limits knowing leaseholders struggle to put together and coordinate the costs and case to challenge them. I know cases of this; there's still a lot of room for strengthening the law. Our local MP seems to be following this closely - and if the government wants to expand ownership of flats and not lose votes then in my opinion it would be wise of it to pay attention. I've also nothing more to add!

Michael Ixer ● 1800d

There will always be gaps in any law.I was simply pointing out what exists. Commonhold will not solve all problems either. But it still stands that leases need changing if the material structure is added to . If not I'd argue that original leaseholders are not responsible for cost of failures associated with those amendments. But I have no doubt you find an exception and on it goes. I will dip out at this point.

Andy Pike ● 1800d

Andy.  Poor work on extension of common parts such as  staircases, lifts, roofs converted into dividing floors, etc appears to be ambiguous, particularly if builders have liquidated companies ... Not accessible parts such as walls, foundations, roofs, etc aren't necessarily accessible but are considered part of the common fabric of the building. The other issue is managing agents are selected by and accountable to freeholders not leaseholders. There are still areas where the law ought to be changed.

Michael Ixer ● 1800d

That would be part of my solution on the cladding issue. To place a charge on the property to be recovered from any future sale. That already happens in cases of hardship with some landlords.

Andy Pike ● 1800d

Common parts could not be construed as additional flats as leaseholders would have no access to those units ie nothing in common. Leaseholders resolution is actually reasonably cheap if they use the new incarnation of the leasehold tribunal to challenge costs. It is a relatively straightforward process and in my experience very fair, .

Andy Pike ● 1800d

Even without the cladding issue/ownership issues, some blocks are just too expensive to maintain for many people incomes by the time mortgage payments are deducted.The only solution I could see working is a percentage, possibly a significant percentage of any sale retained for future repairs.

Ed Robinson ● 1800d

Andy. That would be the common sense view on additions. However, leases vary and can make reference with terms such as "common parts" which are I'll defined. Hence legal opinions differ and might need to be tested in court: something that might give property owners an advantage over leaseholders in terms of funding legal action.If course there is a possibility UK lease law breaches the ECHR?

Michael Ixer ● 1800d

I agree Michael. I was really pointing out that commonhold is not necessarily a solution. On the issue of freeholder adding stories and then charging existing leaseholders to put right problems that could only happen if the existing leaseholders had agreed a change of lease. If they have their existing lease it should be quite specific on the building they share costs for . That building changes with the addition and therefore so should the lease.they should not have a liability for additions.

Andy Pike ● 1800d

Andy, I believe not all blocks qualify for residents to buy the freehold if the property has more than a certain percentage of commercial use; and, yes, there has to be agreement between and the financial means for residents to purchase the freehold. I don't think the UK system is really "commonhold" is it? The residents still have a lease with the freehold company, it's just that they also oiwn shares in the freehold company. (That system also has problems if residents don't want to enforce leases; for example, when a leaseholders breaks a lease by not installing sound proof wooden flooring.)What is inequitable is when a leaseholder makes money by extending a block (say, by adding additional stories) and then expects existing leaseholders to pay for remedial work to fix problems  caused by the money making extension. 

Michael Ixer ● 1800d

Should read...they still have to pay the bill for works.....Fat fingers !!

Andy Pike ● 1800d

Absolutely be it leasehold or commonhold thrh still have to pay the Bill's for wits done.the leasehold commonhold reform act was around 2004 so the opportunity to go commonhold exists but will you get everyone to agree ?

Andy Pike ● 1800d

As a first step it would be easy to reform leasehold arrangements and shift the balance if control over finances - including such things as criminal offences for not producing properly, detailed, audited accounts within, say, a 12 month period after the end of the financial period. Perhaps too many vested interests in that residual hang over from feudal times - the House of Lords?Leaseholders owning the freehold doesn't always help as those blocks needing cladding replaced are finding.

Michael Ixer ● 1800d

Not a huge difference from leasehold when it comes to share of costs etc.Main difference is you own freehold of the flat and therefore forfeiture cannot occur on lease expiry.I suspect for existing leaseholders to enact commonhold they would first need to go for freehold reversion from the existing freeholder which would require the majority of existing owners to agree.If the block concerned contains tenants of the freeholder I would think the freeholder would become the common holder for these units so that his/ her tenants retain their tenancy protection and any rights if succession etc. In mixed tenure blocks not sure its very attractive.Where all units are leasehold its just as simple to group together and use existing legislation to buy the freehold and set up a management company.

Andy Pike ● 1800d

Commonhold.

D. E. Buckner ● 1800d

What are the alternatives proposed? I think Scotland has a different system and I'd be interested to hear what other systems are used elsewhere in Europe.

Katrina Black ● 1800d