Forum Topic

Richmond Park.

Just read on Barnes Massive, they are fining people who's dog's are off their lead £50 on the spot fine. Also they want to fine all those blasted cyclists as well as they cause just as much trouble with their speeding.

Barbara Stevens ● 1733d47 Comments

If you can hold your head when all around you are loosing theirs!!!

Patrick Barrs ● 1709d

Thomas, I'm not a dog or pet lover but I have noticed that people are becoming intolerant of other people's needs which as a society is is becoming worrying.I suspect the problem is that a lot of people do not train their dogs to your level.I watched a group of people people with a very large dog on a lead in Isabella Plantation, who had no control over it. It had a lead but no one was holding the lead. They were basically just following it as it ignored the multiple calls from the group and just trampled through the stream and flower beds. To be fair I have seen parents let their kids do this too although they are not as threatening. I almost certain that I would feel safer walking with my child with your dog off lead than theirs.Cycling through the park (considerately) most dogs were on leads, a few were not. Some of which were quite far from their owners. Too far if they happen upon a dear lying low.Sadly Thomas the rules seem to be made with inconsiderate dog owners in mind. Cyclist should be mindful that the same doesn't happen to them.I'm personally in favour of more freedom but bigger penalties for those that are not considerate but this does not appear to be a popular view.

Ed Robinson ● 1709d

"No dogs ever done it until he has" - I agree, but I guarantee you that I watch mine like a hawk and don't let it get into those situations by reminding her, as would many other dog owners. She has a sniff, I call, she comes back, I praise her, she goes back to where she was before. That's a subtle way of getting them to never stray too far, because they'll have to return whenever and it gets them exercised. "They all say my dog wouldnt normally just after it has" - Well, I'm very aware that the best way to prevent it is by watching them like a hawk, to which I direct thee to re-read the first response. "What about the seal at Hammersmith?" - If China had told the truth about COVID-19 and not lied about it for months, it could have been contained and that seal could have been crushed under an Aircraft Carrier or eaten by a shark, or tangled in nets. Let's drop this charade of What If."Bu the way I'm a dog lover and my son has dogs but we are acutely aware they can turn in an instant if agitated." - So can humans and pretty much anything else with a brain. Dogs that get agitated can be controlled by the owner, provided they train their dog. Here's a hint, all of the problems you've listed stem from training. I train my dog to the point of, if their anatomy would allow, going to the bog to piss and shit in the basin.

Thomas Jones ● 1709d

"Extremely well trained; perfect recall and with the best temperament I've ever known but there just isn't any knowing how she might've reacted to deer." - Before we even go to Richmond Park, I train our dog to have brilliant recall, no matter what's ahead. Others might have treats, but when I call out, it's back to my side. You don't need to find out how they react to deer because you'd keep them close if you were going near, but that's another question as why you're approaching the deer. "The best policy is to keep them on a lead in the park" - I've answered this already, it's called training."Have a dog who cannot get enough exercise to remain healthy w/out being let off...lead" - I didn't want a Pug, Daschund or Chihuahua. One I have 14 years experience with and I know would get on with most humans and K9s. "Off the lead on such a large piece of land" - This says it all. It's a large piece of land, it's 2,500 acres and because the Deer are somewhere in there, I must keep my dog on a lead. There might be a gun in London, I must drive around in an MRAP. Spoiler, there's a lot of them, I'm not in Mastiff. "Really wonder at the logic of owning such an animal while living in a big city." - Because they're companion that improves mental health, friendships, creates new ones, gets you out the house everyday and is loving constantly in a miserable time on the planet. Furthermore, I have a vehicle that means I could be in the countryside rambling, go airsofting with mates or hooning about B-roads and visiting grand parents.And as the weather gets hotter, I don't want my dog, in her black fur coat to overheat, and that's why I get in the car and go to this large piece of land, 2,500 acres/1,000 hectares or 1,250 Twickenham Rugby Pitches, that could be the countryside and let her off the lead to sniff the undergrowth and have a swim in the many miles of streams. "That seal would be alive if the dog had been on the lead." - If China had told the truth about COVID-19 and not lied about it for months, it could have been contained and that seal could have been crushed under an Aircraft Carrier or eaten by a shark, or tangled in nets. Let's drop this charade of What If.

Thomas Jones ● 1709d

I love dogs as well, our family dog who sadly passed away last year was a rottie cross and she came to us extremely well trained; perfect recall and with the best temperament I've ever known but there just isn't any knowing how she might've reacted to deer.The best policy is to keep them on a lead in the park, if you have a dog who cannot get enough exercise to remain healthy without being let off the lead on such a large piece of land then you really wonder at the logic of owning such an animal while living in a big city.That seal would be alive if the dog had been on the lead.

Oliver Sampson ● 1712d

No dogs ever done it until he has. They all say my dog wouldnt normally just after it has. What about the seal at Hammersmith?Bu the way I'm a dog lover and my son has dogs but we are acutely aware they can turn in an instant if agitated.

Andy Pike ● 1713d

I've been walking the dog in that park for 20+ Years, it's only implemented the "Dogs on Leads" because of attacks, but when it comes to signage, they have an A5 sheet and that's it.Furthermore, many dog owners are more concerned about their dogs than you think and keep an eye on them constantly.It's the humans that want some close ups of the deer packs that get too close, sometimes even having their kids nearer to have a pretty picture. It's like they've forgotten that their phone's camera(s) have a Zoom capability and clever positioning makes them look right next to them, but are 100 meters away.But no, let's go after the hounds that generally need a good run to have their exercise.Those 30ft leads are worse, why? The owners don't trust their recall of the dog. If I call my dog back to me, she'll give a Typhoon a run for it's money.So, these measures are nothing more than timewasters and they've never thought to ask owners to control their dogs/kids. And if the deer are on the otherside of the park, I must keep my trained and well behaved dog on the lead because of a few incidents that aren't shared with us. Even the Parks Police aren't enforcing it, they asked a group of owners to put the dogs on leads, they call them, by their sides and Plod then waves it off saying "If they're that well trained, we'll let you go."

Thomas Jones ● 1713d

Harmless Cyclists.... Having ignored 50% of them then. They ignore traffic laws, they think they're more important and their mindset has led to incidents where cars are driving sensibly and have a dickhead give them abuse, when in fact it's the car's right of way. Roundabouts, how many times have cyclists ignored the "Give Way to the Right" law and jumped out in front of a car going 20 that's forced to slam on the brakes and then be told it was the drivers fault. How many times have Cyclists jumped the Red, nearly get splattered and then deliberately act petty to the car when they get in front of it.

Thomas Jones ● 1715d

Interesting article here:"Richmond Park Cyclists’ co-founder responds to critics of controversial Code of Conduct"https://road.cc/content/blog/richmond-park-cyclists-replies-code-cycling-critics-283403

Ed Robinson ● 1722d

Dog walkers are requested to keep them on the lead during the deer breeding season. The rules are clear and people are ignoring them. Hence: a fine.

Frances Clarke ● 1722d

Dogs on leads in the parks.  Yes, to protect the deer and other wildlife, and surely a very long lead would do the job?  The dog can run around, but you have total control.  Seems like a good compromise.

carole tanner ● 1724d

Definitely 2nd & 3rd that Marc!😀

Vic Condon ● 1725d

I think part of the road is 10mph by the Ballet school is 10mph predestrian priority.

Ed Robinson ● 1725d

I drive and cycle in the area fairly frequently and I'd say the proportion of idiots isn't much different whether they be in a car or on a bike.That doesn't excuse what I'll regularly see from cyclists in the park though, check out Strava's 'Tour de Richmond Park' for all the evidence you need.

Oliver Sampson ● 1725d

It is probably fair to say that a proportion of cyclists behave irresponsibly but that number is still far less than the equivalent number of motor vehicle drivers who should not be allowed behind the wheel. As a cyclist who generally abides by the road traffic rules, I have been shunted from behind, knocked off by an impatient driver with resulting concussion and broken collar bone (in RP of all places) and don’t get me started on those idiots who sound their horns at you in an attempt to scare you off the road. So if a cyclist shouts aggressively at a car, please bear in mind what he or she has probably had to put up with and just give them time, space and above all some consideration.

Simon Tudor-Price ● 1725d

"So please walk your bike round the park, or leave it in the car park."Taking an irrational hatred of people who choose to pedal a bicycle in a recreational park to a whole new level! Follows on from a whole litany of ill-conceived rants and name calling on this site from OP. Just because of the mode of transport some people choose to get from A to B (or around RP!)

Tim Lorimer ● 1726d

I went cycling in the park last night, passed the ballet school and saw at least 20 cyclists with London Dynamo tops line up at the bottom of the hill nearer the café who were then taking turns to sprint up the hill past the school.I'm sure this is an exceptionally rare occurrence though...

Oliver Sampson ● 1728d

It's not clear whether the actual law applies to cyclists though. Outside Royal Parks speeding laws only apply to motor vehicles, and the specific laws that apply to Royal Parks are ambiguously worded (and then further confused by ambiguous amendments). A Royal Parks spokesperson has previously said that the speed limits don't apply to cyclists (but he isn't the final arbiter of such a decision).More info and further links here: https://road.cc/content/news/169880-huge-fine-cyclist-caught-speeding-richmond-parkSpeedometers not being required on bicycles is no defence though. Cars are not fitted with breathalysers or blood alcohol meters but there is still a legal limit on the amount you can drink and drive. It's up to the individual to be ensure they aren't over the limit, much like most cyclists will easily be able to tell the difference between 20mph and 30mph.The unwritten rule in the park (from the Police) is that they'll generally ignore cyclists who are freewheeling down the hills (even if this takes them over 20mph) but they will look to pull over (and possibly fine) those who are going for maximum speed by pedaling hard down the hills.All a bit moot anyway, I generally ride around the park at 20mph (on the flat, slower uphill, faster downhill) and am regularly overtaken by a steady stream of cars (many of whom are driven by people texting or watching videos whilst driving).I'd welcome more enforcement in the park (but I don't think the motorists will).

John Kettlekey ● 1728d

Ed, passing a law would be the easy part. Enforcing it would be the problem given at the moment they could stop any e-scooter user and prosecute them but don't seem to. Although I guess it might be seen as an easy way of manipulating the crime statistics? To be honest if they give me priority on the pavement I'm not going to worry too much, it's those who arrogantly expect me to hop out of the way - obviously I do for self preservation! 

Michael Ixer ● 1728d

Yes Michael, there is an interesting article here:"£300 fine, 6 points on your license and the possibility of having your scooter confiscated..."https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/newsroom/electric-scooter-law/The law does need to reflect the current situation. How hard can it be just to copy the Spanish rules as a starter?

Ed Robinson ● 1728d

Ed. It's interesting how the Newcastle police dealt with these people riding e-scooters that were part of a legal scheme but were drunk n charge: they lost their driving licences for a period. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/e-scooters-dangerous-anti-social-behaviour-newcastle-b1823298.htmlI assume that means anyone riding an e-scooter illegally in London could have pointed put on their driving licence? 

Michael Ixer ● 1728d

Check the signs at the side of the road the next time you are there.  They are very clear indeed.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1728d

Probably applies to horses too..

Mark Derry ● 1728d

Also stop going down one way streets and that includes Deliveroo.

Barbara Stevens ● 1728d

I will consider that cyclists are harmless when they stop going through red lights, stop driving on the pavement, stop speeding towards pedestrians, stop shouting at everyone and generally stand by the highway code. Until then they are a bl**dy nuisance.Same goes for scooters.

Marc Blanchard ● 1728d

What did I say about name calling in the other threads. If I want to talk with Keyboard Commando’s, I’ll have a look on Twatter, not the local Post Code forum where most users are adults or behaving like adults.This whole thing is how division grows and if you’re not careful it’ll like in the USA. People screaming Nazis when they wouldn’t know if one punched them. Most of them don’t even know who bomber Pearl Harbour.

Thomas Jones ● 1730d

And the link to go with the deer ...https://flic.kr/p/2kXFJbE

Michael Ixer ● 1730d

Deer, pedestrians, cyclists and motorists seemed to be coexisting fairly well in Richmond Park today.Ed. Agree with your comments about eBikes, eScooters, etc; we need sensible regulations that are appropriately enforced for everyone's convenience and safety. 

Michael Ixer ● 1730d

Michael, I'm more concerned about the 10 mph pedestrian priority paths in Richmond Park. There appears to be no adherence to the speed limit or guidance and as such the number of pedestrians that I have observed using them has gone down.It is nothing to do with lycra - my non scientific observations is that you can't actually tell from appearance how cyclists behave at red lights or speeding. There are plenty of full lycra cyclists that observe the rules and non lycra cyclist that do not.Personally I'm in favour of legalising and regulating electric scooters. There does of course need to be enforcement. Spain and other countries such as Singapore have done it. The difference is that they do enforce the rules will big fine - so generally people follow them.eScooter, dockless bikes, eBikes, bicycles - we age going to need them all!

Ed Robinson ● 1730d

Best call in AC12 to deal with that then. What on earth is the problem that for a few tens of seconds their bicycles exceed 20 mph?More relevantly, the op was advising people not to ride at all, leest police hiding behind bushes clock their speed.I was trying to point out how ridiculous this suggestion was. But now it seems, ridiculous is taken to a new height.Lycra crime! How despicable.Next you'll be pointing out that cyclists edge forward on red traffic lights - even go through them if the road is clear. What's that, they have no MOT, no insurance, no "road tax". Just wait for the next generation of electric scooters - then you'll really have something to worry about. :)

Michael Winstanley ● 1730d

Apologies - meant Isabella car park coffee place.

Jane Carter ● 1732d

Just come from there. Very good coffee - best of the 4 outlets in the park. No cyclists there this morning.

Jane Carter ● 1732d

'It is practically impossible to cycle in Richmond Park at over 20 mph without being very fit on a racing bike and  on a couple of downhill road sections.'Yeah you'll never see fit looking people on racing bikes cycling on downhill road sections in Richmond Park...*Insert Pinocchio emoji here*

Oliver Sampson ● 1732d

Michael really??Even I can manage over 20mph in Richmond Park on a mountain bike.Plus some of the predestrian priority parths/roads are 10mph. No sign of cyclists sticking to the new guidelines.

Ed Robinson ● 1732d

Plenty of cyclists queueing for coffee etc at the pen ponds provided by a diesel generator by the smell of it.The food did smell nice but the queues enabled me to resist. Reviews welcome!

Ed Robinson ● 1732d

there is so much nonsense posted about cycling on public forums and here is an example.It is practically impossible to cycle in Richmond Park at over 20 mph without being very fit on a racing bike and  on a couple of downhill road sections. Thus there is no way that cyclists cause extensive problems in the park. I suspect that people that complian like this never actually go there - Barbara?

Michael Winstanley ● 1732d

Thanks Philippa! If dogs are off the lead and see baby deer, once they start being born, there will be some tragic incidents. Just keep your dog on the lead! Or find another park where you can let it off for a run.

Victoria Diamond ● 1732d

No, they are no obliged to have speedos but the maximum speed of 20m/h in Richmond Park applies to cars, bicycles and motorbikes.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1732d

You would have to ask them Andy, might stop a bit of rubbing while their cycling.

Barbara Stevens ● 1732d

Bikes aren't obliged to have speedos.

Mark Derry ● 1732d

Have they got their rubbers with them ?

Andy Pike ● 1732d

or just dont break the 20mph speed limit surely?

Matt Palmer ● 1732d

The Police are hiding in the bushes and are also ready to catch the cyclists using Richmond Park as a race track. You will receive an on the spot fine. So please walk your bike round the park, or leave it in the car park.

Barbara Stevens ● 1732d

Luckily for those who read the forum here Victoria Diamond warned everybody about dogs having to be on the lead there and why.  I presume there are some notices in the both Richmond and Bushy.  It pays to read them.

Philippa Bond ● 1732d

You can be sure that, whenever a thread on Richmond Park is started, someone will post an irrelevant and intemperate rant about cyclists...

Richard Carter ● 1732d

Anti cyclist sentiment in Richmond park is far too prevalent. I'd rather fine / impose a great tariff on the cars that pollute this stretch of green we have nearby. The cyclists are harmless

Simon Sharp ● 1732d

They will be issuing a lot of fines if they are in the park around 8am .  I went for a run this morning and approx 50% of dogs were off lead.  None were causing any bother though.A cyclist on the Tamsin trail dinged their bell in plenty of time to let me know they were behind me.  Allowed me to keep left so we could pass safely.  Actually I was impressed y the number of Ibstock School pupils who cycle to school through the park. What a fantastic start to the day!A beautiful sunny morning to spend time in the park.  The traffic jam to get out of Richmond Gate was only back to King Henry's mound too.

Alan Sherman ● 1732d