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Tories win Hartlepool by-election.Jill Mortimer (Con): 15,529Paul Williams (Lab): 8,589The policy of not having any policies may have been the wrong policy!Or perhaps just bigger flags needed :(

Ed Robinson ● 1790d30 Comments

"There's what he said he aspired to and what's actually happened?"Yes, fool me once....as the saying goes!

Ed Robinson ● 1788d

I think we can agree his not succeeded? There's what he said he aspired to and what's actually happened?

Michael Ixer ● 1788d

Michael I would have to disagree.He won on a unity ticket and the first thing he did was drop tge policies that he said he supported.Given his voting and previous record before politics the evidence points towards heavy handed centralisation with little transparency and openess. The UK needs more transparency and more power devolved locally.

Ed Robinson ● 1788d

Ah, Ed, yes. Misunderstand when I was skimming through quickly. I was just speculating - he's trying to accomodate his party's left and right but upsetting all in the process (at least that's what the csocial media posts seem to suggest) - but just a view, not really evidence based.

Michael Ixer ● 1788d

So, Matt, could you kindly explain to me why Brexit and the roll out of the vaccines were quoted as the most important aspects of the local and regional elections?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1788d

Sorry Michael it was your comment before that one I was referring to.Anyway Khan wins second term.Closer than many though. Interesting how the Conservatives went all out for Zac but seemed to have given up on Shaun Bailey so early.Greens did well.Keeping the fares low at a time of austerity was enough to get my vote. But Khan definitely needs to be more imagative when it comes to policies. I have always thought Johnson just cruised in the position and Khan too to a lesser extent.The problem is a lot of what Livingston set up is now out date, it was after all a long time ago. London can not afford anymore cruising IMO real sensible changes are needed.

Ed Robinson ● 1788d

Ed. He said yesterday he was taking full responsibility and today he fired Angela Rayner. Just my sarcasm 😶

Michael Ixer ● 1788d

Michael there is no evidence for your previous statement.

Ed Robinson ● 1788d

Does SH understand what she voted for? I am not persuaded.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1788d

Don't worry, he's taking full responsibility for the results: so he's fired the party Chair Person???

Michael Ixer ● 1788d

Agreed he's frozen trying to please both wings ... he's got to decide soon which set he's going to run with.

Michael Ixer ● 1789d

100%

Matt Palmer ● 1789d

Michael there is a difference between having a disagree about policy and not having any policies at all.Starmer is probably the best Labour leader the Conservatives have ever had!

Ed Robinson ● 1789d

Ed. I think the first problem is to reduce the confusion by reconciling the McDonnell and Mandelson views. Policies are a problem but so is lack of interest? Perhaps if Brexit  doesn't improve their lot they'll be a renewed interest in politics ... if I'm  wrong and all goes well with Brexit then does it matter? Levelling up sounds a great idea; I'm interested in how it will be achieved - is Eton going to start franchising branches in Hartlepool, etc?

Michael Ixer ● 1789d

'anything for free'Andy I do not think so. There was a time when political parties believed in free speech, free education, free health care, free school meals but those days appear to have gone.

Ed Robinson ● 1789d

When my dad voted labour it was because they were the party of the working class. I'd suggest many working voters reject labour because they are now the party of ' anything for free'

Andy Pike ● 1789d

Michael you still have to ask the question why did the Labour voters stay away?If someone asked me what are Labour's policies I could not answer them can anyone else? Not on a nation level no. Locally candidates that have good policies have done well.As I said on the beginning, bigger flags won't do it!

Ed Robinson ● 1789d

My point Sue was that most people didn’t bother to vote, not that those that did “misunderstood” the issues. The false promises of the Tories won out over the alternative Labour programme. The debate was too much focused on the Westminster bubble perhaps? But do you agree that mandatory voting would be more democratic? The Tory vote in Hartlepool gave them just 22% of the electorate ... some triumph. Roll on proportional and mandatory voting.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1789d

agreed, in something a straghtforward as this election you can't say people dont know what they were voting for!

Matt Palmer ● 1789d

I have not checked the turnout of voters in Hartlepool for this election vs the general election.Labour may have misunderstood whatever.  But people voting at local election level in support of Brexit and the rollout of vaccine?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1789d

My source:  https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19285392.conservatives-win-hartlepool-by-election-labour-suffer-humiliating-defeat/

Michael Ixer ● 1789d

The turnout dropped from 41,037 in 2019 to 29,933 last Thursday and the labour vote fell from 15,464 to 8,589 while the Conservative vote rose from 11,869 to 15,529. A combination; yes, some swapped allegencies but I'd say a lot of voters just stayed at home.

Michael Ixer ● 1789d

Spot on Ed.  I'll ignore Ivonne's typical ignorant and patronising comment about people not understanding what they were voting for.

Sue Hammond ● 1789d

"It seems not enough people went out to vote and those who did, did not understand what they were voting for....."Turnout was similar to the general election I believe. I do not agree with people not understanding. It seems the musunderstanding was on the part of the Labour leadership.The Labour vote went from 15,464 in 2019 to 8,589. That is a big drop!

Ed Robinson ● 1789d

I assume we're talking about English apathy? I'm guessing the the Welsh and Scots distancing themselves from Johnson? Not exactly a United Kingdom ...

Michael Ixer ● 1789d

I agree Nick, it is very depressing.Also, many people voted Tory to celebrate Brexit and the successful rollout of the vaccines... at local level?????? (By the way, the successful rollout is thanks to the NHS not the government, though it did procure sufficient numbers thanks to capitalism and greed).It seems not enough people went out to vote and those who did, did not understand what they were voting for.....

Ivonne Holliday ● 1789d

It looks like the “disengaged” party won in Hartlepool. There were c70,000 people who could have voted. Only c28,000 actually bothered to do so. How depressing is that?It’s about time we followed the Australian precedent and required everyone to vote by law. They can spoil their ballot if they so decide, but they have to turn up.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 1789d

Yes, with the big difference is that in Wales and Scotland they are voting for the members of their respective Parliaments.In England, on the other hand, it is local and regional governments, though people voted as if it were a national election...

Ivonne Holliday ● 1789d

Michael, Labour appear to be winning where they have good strong policies after all it's not a beauty contest - leaving aside that not many actually want ...and world peace!"Keir Starmer must go for Labour to become electable, says Lord Adonis"https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-lord-adonis-labour-b1843774.html

Ed Robinson ● 1789d

An observation made on BBC TV News today: the incumbent national parties seem to be holding power: Conservatives in England, Labour in Wales and the SNP in Scotland.

Michael Ixer ● 1789d