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Philippa. I think the important thing that came out of the programme was that people need a motivation to use the internet. The inertia for them to use it may depend on their knowledge and confidence in using the technology. In some cases the distrust or dislikeof it means they won't be moved to try at all, whereas if one has to use it for one's job there's a very strong incentive! I must admit although I'm comfortable using the internet there are times when I don't: I've found the knowledge the ticket staff have at Putney station and the Waterloo advanced booking offices has saved me money or given advice that I would not have found easily myself on line.I'd personally steer clear of simplified "special" devices as they may have restricted functionality and either not work with certain internet facilities or not accept some updates meaning they may become obsolete sooner - that could just be my predudice, I'd rather stick with mainstream devices. I'd agree that tablets are generally easier to use than PCs (I mainly use an Android tablet) but Windows generally has richer features so may be necessary, or easier, for some activities - for example, participating in a large, interactive  Zoom meeting or tracing the routing of an email's path through the internet.And, security and trust is an issue; there's no real way of being certain who one is corresponding u with by email, etc even if you think you know who's at the other end; on the other hand, security services (and Google) can be quite adept at tracing you - or criminals - the trouble is if they're half way round the globe they can't nessarily catch them. This is one of my favourite internet names 🙂:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dog

Michael Ixer ● 1825d

Whether one thinks the constant update of technology is needed it looks like nothing is going to stop it ... unless anyone thinks capitalism is going to fail? There's always going to be a drive to cut costs and expant markets with new and "improved" prducts; unless the climate emergency halts that? I guess all developments come with benefits and disadvantages; it's just that they're not always evenly distributed. (Interestingly, Matt's post about his charity emphasises the disparity between rich and poor in the world - forget inequities in our own country between our own rich and poor, old and young, etc!) Although there is an obvious disparity between the use of technology by old and young the recent pandemic has highlighted the digital divide between rich and poor: think of all the laptops that schools were distributing to disadvantaged pupils so they could learn at home during lockdowns, although they often didn't have adequate broadband services to use them effectively. On the other hand, I remember when working in financial services IT we had concerns about older clients using online services but as it turned out it was those retired with plenty of time who were looking at their investments daily and phoning up their financial advisors if they weren't happy with the performance! (Unfortunately, they weren't always aware of the dangers of using email.) I think we need to be careful with generalisations - education and wealth have a bearing as well as age. That doesn't mean some older people aren't disadvantaged by complex systems that are poorly documented and are difficult to operate for those with poor eyesight, hearing loss or arthritis. Let's hope voice control becomes the norm over the next few years! I guess the answer is that there needs to be some way of providing information and education on these new developments and perhaps regulating their usability. I'm not sure of the best way of achieving that. Family and friends can assist - I've given advice to a friend of a similar age regarding his mobile phone - and government agencies and care organisations can regulate or guide but there's still the problem of those on their own. That probably links in with general assistance for older people from care and health services? But we need to be careful of criticising technology advances: many of us have been pleased of online shopping, remote working and Zoom conferences during the pandemic: as a result many of us want higher bandwidth and faster broadband connections and in answer to this BT and others are rolling out Fibre to the Home across the country during the next decade or so. However, one issue with this is that our copper based century old switched telephone system is no longer workable (or economic for BT to run now we all use smart mobile phones - hard to believe in the late 1960s telephones subsidised postal services!) so in the next 4-5 years it's planned to replace it with internet telephony (which is already used by many businesses). We get the good, better bandwidth, with something, internet telephony, consumers may not have asked for: the cost of progress? I don't think we'll stop new technological developments; it's how we make them easy, safe and secure to use and understand, and how to stop sections of the community being left behind. Not saying I have any answers, just some points for discussion 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 1829d

The constant updating of technology - I'm sure unnecessarily - perhaps for marketing purposes is irritating and troublesome.  This was the reason that I ended up scouring Ebay and charity shops for matching Big Button phones so that we could ones which worked in exactly the same way in the hall, by the bed and in the sitting room by the chair - all firmly stuck down with bluetack.  All had been speed dial programmed with the same list of people - dr's surgery, family and friends etc - a list of whom was printed in large font (together with full numbers) and laminated and attached nearby.  We also had a copy to refer to in case we needed it.I did get a bit depressing though when people on the list died... as it didn't seem right and it was rather confusing to replace one person with another. A reminder too of why address books with loads of crossing out can become rather depressing (although you can remind yourself of where someone lived etc).I was reminded at the weekend that we had very large (approx 9x4in) big button TV remotes.  These were far too complicated as we really only needed a few TV functions - on off and volume up and down.  We didn't want VCR as that just complicated matters.  It would have been good if you could disconnect various functions.  So I had to block off a section of buttons with Sugru and plastic packaging.  This was a little complicated as it had to prevent any pushing and activating of the buttons underneath. We managed it though.The RNIB ones had buttons which were too small and the remote would have got lost down the sofa.  The universal big button ones were so big that they could not be missed! 

Philippa Bond ● 1829d

I agree with you Martine.  Technology has moved so fast and keeps on moving fast so no sooner than you seem to get used to something it changes again.Many people do have mobile phones and computers or tablets but that doesn't mean that they can use all the functions on them (and some have them but never use them at all - so just can't).  Just like with the washing machine there are loads of settings but you probably only use a very few of them.  When there is nobody to ask it is even more difficult.I wonder how good Alexa is?  I sometimes hear her trying to answer quiz questions. I met the inventor a year or so ago.  He was interested in how IT like that might change lives.Another problem we had was we put in an electronic calendar for a deaf aunt so that it was easy for her to see and remember which day of the week, month and year it was as well as the time.  This worked well except it had to be left plugged in all the time but she had a habit of unplugging everything at night so that was a failure.  The same happened with the digital radio once it had been unplugged it lost the carefully chosen and preset channels.As Martine mentioned the digital TV updates itself adding new channels and then the old ones can't be found because they've moved but even worse than that the TV won't just switch on and go as in the past - someone who can see and understands needs to go through a procedure to reset it. The microwave became difficult to set because the markings were so poor and there was no pointer.  I managed to make a pointer with Sugru and an RNIB bump-on on the 2 min making it possible to do a little simple heating. For blind FIL the battery run RNIB black and white talking clock was absolutely brilliant - you just have to tap the topand it tells you the time. Hold the top down a little longer and it will give you the day, month an year and date and brilliant of brilliants - it would update itself when the clocks went back or forward.We had one by the bed and one by the armchair (and I even found one in Urdu and English which was interesting).A carer may only stay 15 min - eg make a drink, give pills and fill in a book and go, if they have to get you up and washed and dressed as well as making breakfast etc it takes a lot longer.  We used to reckon a good hour.  None of us like being rushed and it becomes worse as you get older and less mobile.Just a few of the challenges we faced with the generation above us. I hate to think what it will be like if and when we get that old and what challenges we and our children will face!

Philippa Bond ● 1837d

And yes, the digital divide has only got worse, I'm afraid. There are those charities who are supplying tablets and phones to those without, and some are able to have lessons, but it is a problem. The Putney Society has tried to find out more, by fortunately being able to send letters to those patients digitally excluded at Putneymead and only accessible by landline and mail. Obviously The Putney Society didn't have the names and addresses, and followed the data protection rules. The people who responded to the letter were, in the majority, finding life tougher without access to computers and were having to find whatever ways they could to get round it. Without up to date phone books, and businesses being closed physically, it certainly has made life more challenging for some. As a result of that initial letter, all the other Medical practices in Putney worked together on a letter to their digitally excluded patients, which included a lot of contact phone numbers and information that they might not have found easy to find. That in turn has filtered through to leaflets being handed out to some receiving the vaccine. People are trying to help, but as I was reading in the media earlier, even a milk delivery company has decided that it will only take online orders, so many of their customers are very upset they won't be able to get deliveries any more. We have to be ever vigilant and not become a cashless, online only society!Do come along to the talk. It promises to be very interesting!

Victoria Diamond ● 1838d

Don't worry Victoria it is the understanding that matters and since it is a homophone it is easy to understand.  I suspect that is why it first made me think of sight and how so many people amongst those waiting for operations must be awaiting cataract ones.  It is just wonderful on either a laptop or a mobile being able to just 'stretch' the size of the text until you can read it. Barbara's point about webinars brings up the digital divide.  Just today there has been talk about speeding up the passage of passengers through airports by having their vaccination and Covid test info on smart phones. I can see that only suiting those passengers that have them.I'm pleased that Barbara has been enjoying webinars.  It is particularly easy when you have been invited to join one (often after registering first).  We too have been doing some of this since the pandemic for the first time. There have been some great presentations with questions as mentioned - but there have been some pretty awful Council planning meetings (not WBC - haven't tried those!) Online pub quizzes with friends have been good and occasional family get-togethers.I've also tried to deal with a doctor using a mobile phone and that was pretty awful as you can't see what you are showing the doctor.  A think a photo sent by mobile might be better.  A friend with a nasty mole and no mobile had a very difficult time trying to get attention from the doctor when she knew from previous experience that she needed attention/a referral.Face Time and Whatsap to see and speak to growing grandchildren good too.  The pandemic would have been worse without them.

Philippa Bond ● 1839d