Forum Topic

More flagwaving nonsense

It's widely reported (as in this from the Times) that "Ministers have ordered government departments to fly the Union Jack every day 'as a proud reminder of our history and the ties that bind us'.”So far, so pointless - but what follows is positively crazy: "Regulations will be introduced to make it more difficult for public buildings to fly the European Union flag." What on earth ??? We're in the midst of a pandemic, and they think this is worth spending time on - and it's not even April the 1st yet! https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/union-jack-to-fly-on-all-government-buildings-3nlz26cxd

Richard Carter ● 1860d41 Comments

I haven't read the entire rather lengthy thread on this, but has anyone mentioned that identifying which buildings are full of government employees could be considered a security risk to those working there? No specific threat at the moment as I recall, but there are some very strange individuals around! Best leave the flag flying to the principal buildings and leave the rest alone in my opinion.

Katrina Black ● 1856d

I'd say anyone making comparisons between the Confederacy flag in the US and the EU flag is making, at best, a very distrateful comparison. The Confederacy flag is of a defunct breakaway state that stood for racism and slavery that was defeated in a civil war. Its flag is only promoted by those on the extreme right who would like to reverse the clock or people unaware of its true meaning. The EU flag represents a democratic union of sovereign states that still exists, and may expand in the future. True the UK has left the EU but some still have connections with or carry out business with it and like those with family and friends there may have a reason to want to associate with it by displaying the EU's flag. A very inappropriate and unfortunate, some might think stupid, comparison. Of course, you'd be free to fly a Confederate flag should you wisdh to be associated with it, as others should be free to fly the EU ...

Michael Ixer ● 1857d

In the States there has been a lot of hot air about whether to fly the flag of the lost cause Confederacy. Now this thread is discussing whether to fly the  flag of the lost cause EU. After Scottish independence no  doubt some will waste their time discussing whether to  fly the  flag of the lost cause UK.Many have taken up dog ownership in the lock down, it gives something to do and  it soaks up excess emotional energy.

Hugh Thompson ● 1857d

Ben,the way Labour and the Conservatives are going St David's Day will be a holiday in Wales before the decade is out.You have to remember that the UK does not have public holidays it has bank holidays. It is up to your employer if they give them to you - some employers deduct them from your leave. And leave was only relatively recent as a result of the EU working time directive."Bank or public holidays do not have to be given as paid leave.An employer can choose to include bank holidays as part of a worker’s statutory annual leave."https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

Ed Robinson ● 1859d

You kind of read my mind. Its sad but I know many people who can't disassociate the Union Jack from people like the NF or BNP so can't see the pride in it. They'd rather see the union flags separately .

Maxine Campbell ● 1859d

Aren't there now supposed to be two of these flags flying?https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/22/boris-johnson-gets-second-brexit-jet-painted-with-union-flag-14287801/

Philippa Bond ● 1859d

"I take your point that perhaps the Government has more important issues than legislating to make it difficult to fly the EU flag on public buildings."Exactly, and that's all I was arguing about.

Richard Carter ● 1859d

Mr CarterI take your point that perhaps the Government has more important issues than legislating to make it difficult to fly the EU flag on public buildings.But the real issue is that as a result of a democratic vote we are no longer part of the EU and so why should it be flown on a PUBLIC building ?And who has the authority over the workings of a public building to actually insist it be flown ?For surely we can consider public buildings to be 'owned' by the public who have decided they wish to show no allegiance to the EU, which the flying of such a flag would indicate.So, no EU flag in these circumstances but of course you as an individual can fly one on your PRIVATE buildings.

John Hawkes ● 1859d

Like other posts on this thread, this rather misses the point, which wasn't about the desirability or otherwise of flying the EU flag on public buildings, but the foolishness of wasting scarce parliamentary time on banning it - bearing in mind that the Easter recess is a day under four weeks, followed soon after by the may Day recess.

Richard Carter ● 1859d

We are not in the EU. It is not a nation state and it does not have full diplomatic parity. It is just a trading bloc with great pretensions.

Christopher Holt ● 1859d

Thanks Ed, I sit corrected on St David's Day, really thought that was a public holiday in Wales.

Ben Rainbow ● 1859d

"They are public holidays in their respected nations."Perhaps I'm missing something Ben but I'm not seeing anything under Upcoming bank holidays in England and Wales!Scotland has a St Andrew’s Day and Northern Ireland has both St Patrick’s Day & Battle of the Boyne (Orangemen’s Day).There are no Bank holidays to celebrate the nation or nations in England & Wales.There is no Bank holidays to celebrate the UK in any of the four nations.There are no Bank holidays in the UK as a whole to celebrate each nation's day(s).The above is rather worrying. So you can put your flags on buildings but unless meaningful effort is made by the government to change the above and the culture that has resulted in the above then I think little will change.https://www.gov.uk/bank-holidays

Ed Robinson ● 1859d

They are public holidays in their respected nations.

Ben Rainbow ● 1859d

True, but they are celebrated!St George's not much, but St Patrick's????

Ivonne Holliday ● 1859d

"Well, there is St David's, St Andrew's, St. George's and St Patrick's Days."None of which are bank holidays Ivonne :(

Ed Robinson ● 1859d

Well, there is St David's, St Andrew's, St. George's and St Patrick's Days.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1859d

Gibraltar have their national day - which is a bank holiday of course where everyone wears white and red. It's very friendly, all ages - with bands and performers etc. I enjoyed it and joined in even bought a hat!Now if the UK did something like Gibraltar I could understand it - but we don't even have a bank holiday for the UK - never mind one to celebrate each of the for nations!

Ed Robinson ● 1859d

Stolen from Twitter:-https://twitter.com/Jeduimru1/status/1374759644007120900/photo/1

David Ainsworth ● 1859d

The flag could be a digital, flexible screen easily reprogrammed  via a wi fi connection? Just have to hope the Russians, Chinese or Koreans don't manage to hack it ...

Michael Ixer ● 1860d

The white flag could be wipeable to allow for rapid and easy change as Global Britain constantly makes new and advantageous commercial and diplomatic relationships.

David Ainsworth ● 1860d

Only partly joking. Enough white flags for the whole population would be a sight cheaper than the cost of 40% extra nukes. I had to show my passport to buy beer at a Chipotle takeaway in the US. I suspect that they were taking the Michael or wanted to see the changing whiteness of my beard since the photo was taken. So I am used to dealing with mild resentment in order to get a drink.

David Ainsworth ● 1860d

I guess a lot of this comes down to perception - rightly of wrongly around the globe many associate the Stars and Stripes is associated by some with independence and freedom from colonialism (although others see it as representing extreme imperialism ...), the EU flag is considered about cooperation and bringing nations together in peace while the Union Jack (or should I say Flag?🙂) still has associations with colonialism and imperialism. As I say, none of those may be true but it's all about how people see things ... perhaps David has the right idea - run up a white flag - or perhaps we could run up a red one with a hammer and sickle, or even a black one with skull and crossbones to celebrate our new found freedom from regulation and disdain for international law?

Michael Ixer ● 1860d

“We could perhaps just run up a plain white flag.“You say in jest but I suspect quite a few of those could be in demand.  Looks like there could be conflict in Ukraine once more, but alas the world in general seems more divided now than for some time.  With a new authoritarian streak being experimented with by governments here in the west, and the rise of tensions globally I’m not as sanguine for the coming few years as to where things will be.For now I’m just hoping I’m allowed down the pubs when they open without having to show an identity whoops vaccination card!

Mike Warman ● 1860d

We could perhaps just run up a plain white flag.

David Ainsworth ● 1860d

I think the UK government are just late to the party.  The EU have been flying for years with no comments of being jingoistic or nonsensical here, and obviously the SNP do remorselessly.  I suspect it’s more a case of if you can’t beat the, join them.I’m all for fewer flags but perhaps EUtopia and Scotland could lead by example.  Do they wave them in a better way somehow?I also agree with Hughs comment on all thinking we are right.  And also re devolution here- I grew up thinking of myself as British, where as now I would identify as English as Scotland has moved away.  What would the new flag look like once Scotland leaves, and would the EU flag have to drop a few stars if more states leave that union in years to come?

Mike Warman ● 1860d

@MartineYes you're right so at least Thornberry was useful for something.

Sue Hammond ● 1860d

Sue, imo it was Emily Thornberry and her sneering, snobby views that helped Leave win the Referendum and the Conservatives win at the last election.

Martine Guy ● 1860d

"Whatever,let us remember we all think we are right and that others are wrong. This is the modern disease".Thank you Hugh.

Caroline Whitehead ● 1860d

Sorry Hugh but you are wrong.😉Insecure Americans? That's an oxymoron if ever I heard one. Americans are very patriotic and are proud to fly their country's flag. Good for them!Labour didn't get into trouble over the flag issue, it was only that fat snob Emily Thornberry.  That will be her political legacy.

Sue Hammond ● 1860d

Before devolution flags were something only insecure Americans flew.  Labour got into trouble when it was exposed as despising those who flew the cross of St George.There are many who despise nationalism,patriotism and even their own country-see George Orwell. Whatever,let us remember we all think we are right and that others are wrong. This is the modern disease.

Hugh Thompson ● 1860d

Why should any national or regional flag be banned?

Sue Hammond ● 1860d

Well I think you should erect one immediately Matt!😉

Sue Hammond ● 1860d

The Cornish flag is quite popular but Kernow doesn't exist as a country... Should that be "banned/seen the same" as the EU flag?

Ben Rainbow ● 1860d

lol, hate to disappoint!

Matt Palmer ● 1860d

Somehow I knew that you would Matt!😹

Sue Hammond ● 1860d

got to love a bit of rampant nationalism!we have an EU flag in our window btw lol

Matt Palmer ● 1860d

I agree Richard, it is ridiculous.There is a press room which resembles the one in the White House.  Will Allegra Stratton be flanked by Union Jacks also?Ministers are now on TV with the Union Jack behind them, sometimes two....  Ministries have been told to fly the Union Jack every day.It is like being in the US.I wonder, will we be asked to fly the Union Jack in or outside our homes too?  To "show pride about our history and the ties that bind us"? Hmmmmm

Ivonne Holliday ● 1860d

Yes Alan it would be stupid but Remainiacs can still fly one ...

Sue Hammond ● 1860d

Wee Nicola is being provocative by flying just the saltire and an EU flag!Mind you she’s also given NHS workers a 4% pay rise which will probably annoy the government even more. We could do the same if we diverted just a fraction of the Test & Trace budget. The Grauniad got the flag thing just about right with a headline starting “By Jingo ... “ and a picture of our esteemed PM hanging from his zip wire waving a couple of Union Jacks.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1860d

I don't see the problem Richard.  However if you wanted to hoist the EU flag on top of your roof and you were prevented from doing so, I would see that as a problem.  It would look bloody ridiculous but it's your right to do it.  They are available on eBay ...

Sue Hammond ● 1860d

Flying a European flag now would be rather odd though wouldn't it?  We don't generally fly flags of other countries or unions that we are not members of, unless as part of a display of flags or a visit.

Alan Sherman ● 1860d