Forum Topic

Awful crash in Richmond Park today

The Royal Parks Police have posted details of a very nasty crash in which a cyclist received serious facial injuries (fortunately not life threatening) after being knocked down by a car near Ham Gate in Richmond Park today.  It "hit the cyclist before smashing through barriers and spinning off the road at Ham Gate on Thursday morning," they have said. Judging from the pictures, the car must have traveling at a horrendous speed. 

Richard Carter ● 1895d50 Comments

Solution for drivers - exercise more caution.  Solution for cyclists - ditto.  The difference is the car gets a new dent, the cyclist ends up in hospital so whoever is to blame for a particular incident, the consequences are wholly disproportionate.I drive and I cycle so I can see both sides of it.  Nowadays I drive more cautiously anyway (it's an age thing) but with so many more cyclists on the roads that's what all drivers should be doing.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1891d

Doesn't look like it's got any grip on mud with those tires. Handbrake wouldn't help and we know that when a car leaves the road, it didn't have any grip. And if you want to talk about safety, then having bikes swarming cars to overtake/undertake any vehicle because their Garmin Watch or Strava App says they must. I nearly ran a bike over, I had my signal on right and was approaching the junction and it's clear for me and some idiot tried to get past. I'm an avid "Mirror Signal Manoeuvre" but that was taking the piss. Never their fault, when it's like cycling down the inside of a Truck with a Left signal on.

Thomas Jones ● 1891d

Moving between manual shift and automatic IC engine cars and electric Zipcars (and numerous hire cars in the UK and abroad on business and pleasure) I don't see much difference between driving an auto petrol/diesel car and an electric car - other than with an electric one there's no creep in neutral, it's quiet and  smooth, very responsive and unlikely to stall (well that's my experience of the eGolfs); but like any different car I guess one needs to get familiar with any foibles and be careful? So I can see no reason why electric cars should be more dangerous in the hands of the elderly than other cars. We'll just have to wait for the police investigation to find out what happened ...  

Michael Ixer ● 1893d

if someone confuses brakes for accelerator I am not entirely convinced they should be allowed to drive

Gregory Edelston ● 1893d

"What about those that use its roads to cycle round and round in, Richard?"No, they are not "genuine visitors."Next question. 

Richard Carter ● 1893d

What about those that use its roads to cycle round and round in, Richard?

Rose Compton ● 1893d

Rose this point has been made ad infinitum: it's the difference between someone who drives to the park to enjoy it, and those who simply use its roads as a cut through.

Richard Carter ● 1893d

Yes, please explain it to us, Richard. Why is someone in a car not a genuine visitor?

Rose Compton ● 1893d

There have been a load of accidents reported in the past few years where older drivers had an accident in which they suddenly accelerated to high speed. 
It looks to me like someone meaning to stamp on the brakes, but getting the accelerator pedal instead. Electric cars can have very powerful acceleration 

Sean Hodges ● 1893d

Rose, both of Richards and Jonathan original posts said they were obviously doing over 20mph. When Richard comes on here so does Jonathan to stick up for each other, a bit like Gert and Daisy. They both had it wrong jumping to conclusions as I had already googled and I could see they were elderly couple. Whats even worse is, the fact these EV could be dangerous for older people to drive, as shown.

Barbara Stevens ● 1893d

No, Rose, genuine visitors means ... genuine visitors. Do I need to spell that out for you ?

Richard Carter ● 1893d

'Genuine' meaning cyclists of course. 

Rose Compton ● 1893d

Ed, as you will know since you frequely visit the site, there has been endless discussion on this forum about vehicles in Richmond Park, revolving around the need to ban through traffic whilst preserving access for genuine visitors, and it really would be tiresome to have to run through it yet again.

Richard Carter ● 1893d

Well said Ed.

Lucille Grant ● 1893d

Jonathan probably best to ignore my attempts at humour - it has a very limited audience.It is a difficult time and the parks are trying to accommodate everyone and on the whole have done a good job in the sense that all the various group are complaining.I have to say that I thought it was a good balanced article you referenced. We shall have to wait for the police report to get more details on this specific incident.Cycling through the park last year I was shocked by the lack of cars in the blue badge car park. Accessibility in Isabella Plantation has been improved enormously. It is important that the negativity does not put off the less mobile from visiting the park and getting the benefits that those of us that can cycle take for granted.

Ed Robinson ● 1893d

Sorry Mark!

Matt Palmer ● 1893d

Ed, I was just pointing out the basic facts as I see them - too many people and too much traffic. The solutions can be debated but I do believe these have to include curtailing through traffic. Like Wimbledon Common and other open spaces you can’t close them off to the public but the damage being done is increasingly obvious. Some areas will probably need roping off to allow the grass to regenerate.  It wasn’t in my quote but I also said speeding club cyclists is an issue too. Maybe the Parks authorities need to engage with the clubs and find a constructive solution that suits the many other classes of user they manage to annoy so much?  Generally I see cyclists and pedestrians getting on fine on shared paths but the fact is that there are occasional conflicts and neither side is blameless. Not all blue badge holders are “old dears”.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1893d

Xenophobe, blimey Matt, did you have to look it up in the dictionary. I could say you dislike what everybody says unless they belong to your little sect.

Barbara Stevens ● 1893d

"I think raising access for service vehicles, etc, is a complete non-issue: their number must be minuscule in comparison with the numbers of cars"Sorry but people are talking about banning vehicles they were not being specific. Last time it was due to pollution but this vehicle was an electric car.They are making the justification based on this one car so numbers are now relevant??What if it was a blue badge holder?Should we ban those too?

Ed Robinson ● 1893d

shouldn't be any through traffic ...

Gregory Edelston ● 1893d

I think raising access for service vehicles, etc, is a complete non-issue: their number must be minuscule in comparison with the numbers of cars (and, increasingly, commercial vans, though they are supposed to be banned). And Jonathan might also  have pointed out (perhaps he did but this wasn't quoted?) that the Park isn't just an SSSI but a National Nature Reserve and a Special Area of Conservation, emphasizing the need to protect it from this reckless use a convenient cut through.

Richard Carter ● 1894d

"Local resident Jonathan Callaway says he regularly walks and cycles in the park, and that “covid-driven overuse” is making through traffic issues worse....Mr Callaway said: “It’s a lovely green space and important SSSI [Site of Special Scientific Interest] but groaning under the sheer weight of human users”Perhaps they should bad humans that visit so regularly? :)We do not know the facts but I would just like to point out that there are deliveries, residence and a school located in the Park. So vechile free isn't really a possibility for those that want to ban them all.It was an electric car and for all we know it could have been two old dears heading to the blue badge car park.Perhaps they couldn't see due to those yellow blobs on their heads :)

Ed Robinson ● 1894d

This is the latest report. Modesty has not prevented me from posting this link - I am quoted. https://richmond.nub.news/n/calls-to-ban-traffic-intensify-after-serious-crash-in-richmond-park

Jonathan Callaway ● 1894d

Since when is it 'an extension to the South Circular'?! Cars drive in other Royal Parks btw.

Lucille Grant ● 1894d

And this sort of carp is why I avoid this forum almost entirely these days. JUST STOP IT BOTH OF YOU or you'll be sent to bed with no supper.

Mark Phillips ● 1894d

I still dont understand why cars are allowed in the park. It is a Royal Park, a Nature Reserve and also an extension of the South Circular. Can we not have one place in London that is car free and safe for other users? (Disabled obv exempted.)

Gregory Edelston ● 1894d

My son who is in to cars, said had I seen the EV battery, he said if you imagined a box that a wedding dress came in then when you open it it has about 1000 AA batteries. These also have to have a form of coolant. You'll have to Google I was only half listening to him.

Barbara Stevens ● 1894d

Have you not heard about the little old lady from Pasadena ?Proof that elderly folk can be mad racers too.

Mark Derry ● 1894d

They clearly didn't slam their brakes on at 20mph.Modern cars do suffer a lot more damage than earlier cars due to programed deformation designed to protect the occupants. I suspect it was the crash that caused this to stop, that's a crash with no brakes being applied. That doesn't need the car to be going ridiculously fast for the car to be written off. Cars are heavy (especially electric ones) so they carry a lot of momentum.

Mark Derry ● 1894d

Just had to put this on here, it is now on the front page of the forum. But the car was a new Electric Vehicle, who will now want to buy one now, perhaps they had been told it would drive itself.

Barbara Stevens ● 1894d

There is a picture of the elderly couple on Google.

Barbara Stevens ● 1894d

There is no way that impact occurred at 20mph. Anyone who has driven at 20mph and then slammed on the breaks in a modern car (like that) knows it will stop pretty instantly and probably not even gone through the barrier let alone that far away from the barrier.Did the person hit the accelerator rather than the brake?

Gabrielle OMahony ● 1894d

You're splitting hairs Matt

Sue Hammond ● 1894d

I didn't say you were a rascist Barbara :) I said you were a xenophobe, very important difference!

Matt Palmer ● 1894d

The facts are rather sparse. All the police have released are pictures of the car and information regarding injuries. Anything else is speculation, although one can perhaps rule out a medical emergency as the car's occupants appear to be ok (apart from minor injuries to the driver's hand). The only other comment in the police tweet was:"When driving, you must be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear."  - that might indicate the car was driving too fast for the conditions or could just be a standard general warning?

Michael Ixer ● 1894d

???????!!!!

Caroline Whitehead ● 1894d

Well now you have all found out it was an eldery couple and not a mad racer, what have you got to say about that. They are too old to drive, shouldn't be in their car they should walk. Oh or get on their bike. Tut, Tut, you jumped to conclusions because you think it's only your park and you don't want anybody else in it. Also Matt I think you are the racist as it is continually in your brain and by accusing others it makes you feel better.

Barbara Stevens ● 1894d

You picking on the Greeks now ?sorry - only joking..

Mark Derry ● 1894d

Elderly lady driver who either didn’t stop or may have driven off! https://twitter.com/CyclingLawLDN/status/1362351652079075330

Mary Walker ● 1894d

Matt, I don't know what nationality you are. You could be racist to me it goes both ways, don't you know.

Barbara Stevens ● 1894d

They should just ban cars from entering the park full stop It’s become a commuter route and has just changed the face of the nature reservePeople can walk to the park or pay to park nearby unless you are disabledFull stop

Emma Blackwell ● 1894d

Actually Matt, you can Google and there are 2 elderly people standing by the car. So before you jump to conclusions check out first. Perhaps another Prince Philip.

Barbara Stevens ● 1895d

That's why I mean Michael, unless the driver is foreign they are never capable of driving like idiots in Barbara's eyes lol

Matt Palmer ● 1895d

I didn't see anything indicating the nationality of the driver? It look a mess but I suppose the barrier ripped the front off the car, but must have been doing well over the 20 mph limit! Could the driver have had a seizure or similar and rammed the throttle down?Good the cyclist doesn't have life threatening injuries but sounds bad enough.

Michael Ixer ● 1895d

That is horrific!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1895d

The only circumstances in which Barbara will condemn a car driver - if they aren't English born and bred.

Matt Palmer ● 1895d

Always thinking the worst, perhaps his breaks failed.

Barbara Stevens ● 1895d

So much for the 20 mph limit.  More enforcement needed, as always.  I hope they throw the book at this driver.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1895d

That looks particularly nasty...

Ben Rainbow ● 1895d

Apologies for (inadvertently) posting this twice.

Richard Carter ● 1895d