Forum Topic

Oh dear what a kerfuffle in the EU

Well that didnt take long did it.The EU wanted to breach the Northern Ireland agreement by placing a border on the Island of Ireland to block vaccines to GB.someone then realised they were breaching the brexit deal. A deal where they took such pains in not breaching the NIA.So much for open trade and honouring deals. As the Germans have said they (the EU) are the best advert for Brexit.Cue a million and one excuses from those that wanted to remain in this dishonourable group.Those that keep asking leavers to say why they wanted to leave. Day by day the EU answer that question. 1st Macrons xmas blockade and now this vaccine bullying. What's next?

Andy Pike ● 1914d36 Comments

Sue do remember the forum’s first rule regarding the EU to steal from Fightclub - the first rule regarding the EU is never criticise the EU- the second rule regarding the EU is there are no other rulesOk to deviate from Fight club maybe quite a lot of rules ( we know how the EU like rules, well at least when it suits them) but I have no wish to stir the beast further

Mike Warman ● 1912d

No, this is what I meant: 

Richard Carter ● 1912d

"Hopefully they will share between the 27 on a pro rata basis."Population size is one way to be fair, but it may also be fair and sensible to look at supplying more vaccine to countries with the most deaths per million, for instance. Not a decision for which I should wish to be responsible.

David Ainsworth ● 1912d

I think you meant to type 'yes' Richard.

Sue Hammond ● 1912d

Yawn!!

Richard Carter ● 1912d

"not just the unseemly spat with the EU."Would that be the unseemly spat that the EU started Richard?

Sue Hammond ● 1912d

Me too and I'm sure once we have security of supply we will share out our excess vaccines, as will the EU once they too have sorted their own members out.Hopefully they will share between the 27 on a pro rata basis.

Andy Pike ● 1912d

Andy, this isn't about UK vs EU but rich countries vs poor ones. I was trying to look at the wider moral issue, not just the unseemly spat with the EU.

Richard Carter ● 1912d

The UK is committed to the the WHO's COVAX initiative so I think the need to assist poorer nations is recognised. Isnt WHO/COVAX where the "no one is safe unless everyone is safe" tag line originated? The EU has gone off track with this one but seems to be calming down now, and it seems some of the smaller EU members realise if they weren't part of the consolidated EU scheme they'd be way down the list in the approvals and ordering pecking order ...https://www.who.int/initiatives/act-accelerator/covax

Michael Ixer ● 1912d

We are hardly hogging the vaccines. Wouldnt have thought we'd be giving anyaway when our good neighbours are threatening our supply chain.But I'm sure that once our own supplies are secure we will be happy to help France and Germany etc.Alternatively they could apply to join the GB ZGROUP of countries and pay us exhorbitant amounts of cash for us to make laws for them and set unwieldy central legal systems. Just an idea !

Andy Pike ● 1912d

The EU certainly hasn't covered itself in glory (putting it mildly) over vaccines, but there's a much wider issue: richer nations hogging the vaccine so that poorer ones have great difficulty in obtaining it. And it's not just a moral question, it's a practical one too: leaving poorer nations to become potential breeding grounds for variants, like one found in South Africa, could make vaccines less effective and thus boomerang on us.There's a good write-up of this very question in the NYT:https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/31/world/africa/coronavirus-south-africa-variant.html

Richard Carter ● 1912d

I disagree. Convince me.

David Ainsworth ● 1913d

@MarkDitto

Sue Hammond ● 1913d

Total rubbish

mark Smith ● 1913d

And, of course, Boris Johnson did try and make friends with the virus - by shaking hands.[Boris] "replied: "I can tell you, I am shaking hands contin... I was at a hospital the other night when I think there were actually a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you'll be pleased to know. And I continue to shake hands and, I think it is very important that we... people can make up their own minds, I think Matt has said that people must make up their own minds. I think the scientific evidence is...well I will hand over to the experts."The government's chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance interjected saying, "wash your hands", before appearing to purse his lips and slightly shake his head.""people can make up their own minds"!

David Ainsworth ● 1914d

Not a good look either is putting forward legislation that would specifically and deliberately have breached an international treaty. The UK backed off that in the end as the EU did with Article 15. This new Brexiteer concern for Northern Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement over the last 24 hours stands somewhat in contrast to several years of indifference to it, not to mention hostility to the Irish government for not rolling over without even being asked. The EU has made a huge blunder, reversed the decision and apologised not least because of the diplomatic opposition of Ireland. We must all hope cooler heads will now prevail. No doubt about it we will have to continue to live next door to the EU for a long time yet - and getting on with the neighbours is not a bad policy in any context.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1914d

"Corbyn would probably have invited the Virus for lunch and tried to make friends with it."The Tories not only invited the Lethal Virus for lunch, but for a State Visit. And he came in 2019.

David Ainsworth ● 1914d

Andy a stuffed parrot in charge would have probably resulted in less deaths than the UK has had, plus the economy has been hit hard. Worse of both worlds!

Ed Robinson ● 1914d

Lol @ Andy. 😹The only thing that Brussels has achieved with their vaccine debacle is to prove that the EU will act in a reckless and spiteful manner to try and get its own way, and cannot be trusted.  Not a good look to the rest of the world is it?

Sue Hammond ● 1914d

Thank God we never had the other lot in power during the pandemic.Corbyn would probably have invited the Virus for lunch and tried to make friends with it.

Andy Pike ● 1914d

The EU are determined to show that The UK suffers after Brexit to discourage other countries.  The proof is in the vaccine numbers of 8m people plus here.  If l was a French or German person eligible for the vaccine whilst living in the UK l think l would be happy l was here.  Well done the Vaccination Task Force.Once we are through the pandemic that is the time for enquiries.

Robert Wheeler ● 1914d

The EU makes a big mistake in the NI decision and immediately both acknowledges and reverses it; Johnson makes many over Covid yet says "we have done everything we could" to minimise the death toll. Spot the difference?

Richard Carter ● 1914d

Couple of references for that comment:Police concerns:https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55827679Was this intended for the military?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55849864

Michael Ixer ● 1914d

Yes, Ed, large groups like the US and EU will look after their own interests.  The UK is now a third country in EU parlance so the EU's and UK's interests aren't aligned, and  both parties will look after their own interests - and they might be bigger than us?The problem with Brexit is that the NI solution is a fudge and means part of the UK is still entangled with the EU while seemingly being partially severed from GB. It seemed obvious there was never going to be a satisfactory solution to NI as the GFA agreement was drawn up on the assumption that both Eire and NI were part of the EU. In fact, some might argue that EU membership facilitated the GFA? It's a major reason why I thought Brexit would be problematic. Sadly, the PSNI are worried about Loyalist trouble because of the NI/GB border  but think the Covid lockdown might be surpressing any action.

Michael Ixer ● 1914d

"I think the move by the EU Commission to attempt to invoke Article 16 of the was pretty stupid."So did Barnier!

Sue Hammond ● 1914d

I was responding to Mr Ixer's "Pity more politicians don't own up and correct their mistakes?".

David Ainsworth ● 1914d

Michael that may be true with this issue but it hasn't been true for many others.The problem is that people personalise states as if they are people - they are not.But it is a warning - like the US - the EU will protest it's interests and now that we are on the outside we need to understand that even more.

Ed Robinson ● 1914d

The Chilcot Inquiry took 17 years - I hope we won't be locked down till then!There again apparently Tony Blair is advising the government....

Ed Robinson ● 1914d

The EU is a complete joke.  Brussels argued for months that there shouldn't be a border on the island of Ireland and used it as a negotiating tactic up to the last minute, but today the EU were going to make one by invoking Article 16!  Now Brussels has backed down, what a massive humiliation for them.  The EU is duplicitous and will break any agreement or deal to suit its own agenda.  They tried bullying tactics and it didn't work and this has shown the EU's true colours.🙄Thank god we're out!

Sue Hammond ● 1914d

I think the move by the EU Commission to attempt to invoke Article 16 of the was pretty stupid. There's a lot of hearsay rather thgn hard facts at the moment but it sounds like many in the EU weren't in favour of it, in particular senior Irish politics. Interesting that it seemed to usite the Unionists and Nationalists in NI, in condemning the move, although probably for different reasons.I think the difference between this move and some of Johnson's is that this was withdrawn almost immediately without much resistance whereas Johnson often ploughs on until there's no alternative but to u-turn. Perhaps it's just his blustering style thet makes him less sympathetic, particularly when he's obfuscating the facts? Most politicians do that but some are less obvious? 

Michael Ixer ● 1914d

David this thread is about vaccines and the EUs appalling behaviour today. Which theh atd now saying is an accident ?? Not sure of the relevance of your tangent here.

Andy Pike ● 1914d

"Coronavirus: PM promises future independent inquiry""The PM said now was not the right time for an investigation but there would "certainly" be one "in the future" so lessons could be learned."(15 July 2020)

David Ainsworth ● 1914d

Ha ha ha Michael. When our govt changes a decision it's a u turn. When your beloved EU do it's a great thing.They have left the threat on the table all to cover their abysmal vaccine performance.Thank god we were not in it and took our own route. 8m people vaccinated as a result.

Andy Pike ● 1914d

I've not been following this very closely but as with most UK-EU issues people on both sides quickly leave reality behind.Either they see the EU or the UK through rose tint glasses when both are states or super states that need to be kept in checked.There is a quote here which I need to verify but probably won't bother:"Article 16 is that it may be used unilaterally by either party to address a single issue of a temporary nature until the issue is resolved. It only addresses the SINGLE issue so the rest of the protocol is PROTECTED and continues to function."The UK also has a list of medicines that cannot be exported from the UK BTW.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/933527/medicines_that_cannot_be_parallel_exported_from_the_UK.csv/preview

Ed Robinson ● 1914d

"Boris Johnson insists it is ‘not the time’ to learn the lessons from the pandemic" (27/1/21)

David Ainsworth ● 1914d

According to BBC R4 10pm news they've reversed the decision to revoke A16 and admitted it was a mistake. Pity more politicians don't own up and correct their mistakes? 

Michael Ixer ● 1914d