Forum Topic

Another phone theft

Whilst in Caffe Nero this morning, the main one on the High Street, not the one at the station, the man on the next table to me had his mobile stolen off of his table.A woman cover it with something and was off out the door.

Sarah Stevenson ● 1960d57 Comments

I made this post so that people were aware it's happening in Putney, especially after I read it had happened in Pret recently. I didn't post it so that some readers would blame the person whose phone had been stolen, I really hope they haven't read the comments. I had my handbag stolen from a restaurant a few years ago, it was such an awful feeling together with the inconvenience it caused, it would have been even worse if then people said it was my fault

Sarah Stevenson ● 1956d

I have Alexander and occasionally dream of a gadget free life...but then I remember I have a mortgage to pay and a job that enables that (and lucky I am too, given the current employment meltdown)

Craig Fordham ● 1957d

If you look at the stats comparing England & Wales with Europe you will either come to one of two conclusions.Either we are not enough telling potential victims to hide under their bed all day or the policy England & Wales is following is wrong.But then again I guess we all saved a couple of bob on lower council tax by cutting policing.https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/4/4e/Crime_statistics_robbery_2018data-02.jpg

Ed Robinson ● 1957d

Shift work probably  or covering the office while one went for lunch.

Andy Pike ● 1957d

I did notice 2 different people begging near Sainsbury's a man when I went into Sainsbury's and a woman when I came out.

Barbara Stevens ● 1958d

I think Craig just represents how many out there feel about their work now, just go and see (when we're in tier 2 again) how people work in a cafe. I just stick to a laptop myself but I can understand those who have their phones out as well.At least we won't be seeing this crime for a while with the seating areas off limits. The culprits are using well rehearsed distraction tactics and they'll always be people who can fall for that sadly.

Oliver Sampson ● 1958d

Many have been slaves to machines since the first industrial revolution, only these days it's in the virtual IT data mines of coffee shops ... people have to make a living  ... 

Michael Ixer ● 1958d

Craig: All of us lazy? All slaves to machines? A bit presumptuous on your part, surely! Ever considered free will? Just asking....

Alexander MacLeod ● 1958d

Reminds me of an incidemt where a lady had her laptop stolen while working at a table outside Hudson's on the LLR one sunny day by a scooter riding thief about a year or two ago. Clocks her as he's passing, returns, mounts the pavement next to her and bye bye laptop. Being sensible and aware of your surroundings is the key thing but anting London/Putney/the world to not be like this is just idealistically naive.

Freddie Francis ● 1958d

I think we're all slaves to machines nowadays, aren't we Alexander?  I could put it in my pocket, but then you're constantly putting it in, taking it out etc - lazy I know - but isn't this how work is for most of us now?Michael - very risky leaving laptops and phones on desk whilst popping to the loo.  Aside from the prospect of losing the devise the data security risk (if it's a work device) must be enormous!

Craig Fordham ● 1958d

Craig: Haven't you got an accessible pocket? If you put your phone on buzz you don't need to leave it out on a surface. I think yours is an unnecessary counsel of despair! You sound like a slave to a machine. That can't be right.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1958d

Craig. Yes, I guess it comes down to practicalities, if one's constantly using a device it's going to be left on the table. What has surprised me is that people often go off to the loo and leave their laptop on a table in Prey or Costa. I know one needs to leave something on the table to show it's occupied, but a laptop? Also, i know they expect other laptop users to keep an eye on it but in reality this could be a good example of dispersed/diffused responsibility? Another thing that interests me is that people use multiple devices - I'm sure Bill would argue you can do everything from a Windows PC. I'm guilty of it as well, I'll be on a Zoom conference on my tablet and checking messages on my smartphone - but if I was in an office I'd do everything from a PC (but I do usually avoid carrying a laptop unless it's got specific software that I need to use).

Michael Ixer ● 1958d

Leaving your phone on a table is commonplace.  I regularly work in Pret (well I used to) and nearly always have my phone and iPad out of the table, along with my laptop.  For many people work nowadays involves regular use of multiple devices - my phone is (sadly) in near constant use with emails and WhatsApp messages pinging through every minute.  Bizarrely the one thing I almost never use my phone for anymore is to make or receive a call!  I believe research has shown that adults check their phones at least once every ten minutes and for younger people every five minutes.  Pop into any coffee shop, bar or restaurant and you’ll see phones on tables everywhere!  Is it a good thing - almost certainly no.  Is it reckless - perhaps.  But it’s certainly now become the norm. As for why thieves target phones.  30% of low value transactions are now made my phones.  If you leave yours unlocked, the thief has, at least, got the ability to make numerous low value transactions before you manage to block it - and without your phone, it’s likely to take you a while to be able to contact your bank or phone provider to put that block on.

Craig Fordham ● 1958d

Of course there will Andy it is just the UK has given up on trying to catch them and after years of advertising says it's the victims fault society now believes that!

Ed Robinson ● 1958d

Sorry Ed it doesn't matter how many youth centres police stations etc there are and will always be thieves about.There has always been theft and always will. Because there will always be lazy b.....ds who dont want to earn what they have but find if more attractive to steal from others.

Andy Pike ● 1958d

Andy it is a simple case of looking at other countries for best practice which doesn't include closing police stations and reducing police numbers, cutting rehabilitation, youth centres, adult education and training.

Ed Robinson ● 1958d

It's not victim blaming. And all your idealistic view of stopping crime us all well and good. But the undeniable fact is crime exists, criminals exist, they generally pick on the easy targets . Hence until someone comes up with the utopian society  be careful out there.

Andy Pike ● 1958d

No Andy I do not accept that way of thinking and I even more object to public money spent promoting it."..will prevent a theft"This implies that theft in inevitable and acceptable like using an umbrella to prevent yourself from getting wet.Theft is carried out by someone consciously. The model that you promote simply does not work because there will eventually  be someone less prepared, less able for whatever reason.There is also an environmental impact of accepting crime. The green clean cities of the future will be ones with low crime enabling shared resources.As a society we need to start tackling those that commit crime and prevent it by looking at the real causes of crime which is not someone having a coffee, parking their car or some old lady taking money out of a cash point.But I guess blaming the victim is just another way to distract the public from the real issues - rather similar to the technique used by the phone thief don't you think??

Ed Robinson ● 1959d

"There is no point in stealing an iPhone.  Even if a thief can somehow manage to wipe it and set it up again, you can log into your account and turn it into a brick remotely."Be handy if you could log into your account and turn your stolen mobile into a very small IED. Still, doubtless an abuse of some fundamental human right, or some such flim-flam.

David Ainsworth ● 1959d

It's an interesting discussion. The other factor is if one's phone or other mobile device is stolen then it's not just the hardware that ius lost. If it was not secured with a PIN or password, or was unlocked then there's the possibility of personal (or business) information being lost that could be used for fraudulent purposes. Would a bank, etc consider the owner negligent if subsequently a financial loss occurred?In the corporate world although some might consider a company that's been hacked and had data stolen or systems damaged a victim of criminals the law (the DPA, GDPRA, etc) says they have an obligation to use reasonable best practice to protect information belonging to others. So if yoiur phone contains, for example, contact details and messages containing personal information about others does one have a moral if not legal obligation to protect those data?

Michael Ixer ● 1959d

Ed you seem to enjoy being argumentative. Of course there are times when it's no ones fault and where with the best intentions its impossible to stop a determined thief. BUT  surely you will recognise there are occasions where a little bit of care and forethought will prevent a theft.

Andy Pike ● 1959d

And what about folkes that are old or not able to be as careful as you Andy - fair game?We shouldn't be proportioning blame on how easy it is to commit the crime. The person committing the crime know exactly what they are doing no matter how easy.Is there a hierarchy of care and wits? Would someone more careful than yourselves be entitled to save it was your fault if you were a victim?How far we have fallen with such a mentality!

Ed Robinson ● 1959d

I doubt thieves know what phone they’re stealing at the moment of theft. Just see an opportunity and take it. Interestingly a quick Google reveals stolen iPhones can be unlocked. https://www.imyfone.com/unlock-iphone/how-to-unlock-stolen-iphone/

Freddie Francis ● 1959d

There must be a point to steal i-phones or they wouldn't steal them surely?Whether the owners of all phones are savvy enough to have - and know and be able - to make the best use of any security on them surely is something else.  I agree with what has been said that this ca be particularly stressful for people as they are now used for  practically everything in life including banking.  Info is coming in on them all the time - it isn't just a case of wanting to take it out of your pocket just to make the occasional phone call.

Philippa Bond ● 1959d

Ed,a good job she didn't get off her mobility scooter, they may have had that as well.

Barbara Stevens ● 1959d

Telling people to take care, keep their wits about them seems to be good advice rather than victim blaming. But when folk are downright daft and careless then sometimes 'it's your own fault' are the only words to use.

Andy Pike ● 1959d

There is no point in stealing an iPhone.  Even if a thief can somehow manage to wipe it and set it up again, you can log into your account and turn it into a brick remotely.

Rose Compton ● 1959d

Where do you draw the line Andy?What about an old lady withdrawing her pension from a cash point in an mobility scooter?Should she know better?The logic of blaming the victim leads us nowhere.

Ed Robinson ● 1959d

Good point Timothy. So would you leave your wallet unguarded on the table?

Andy Pike ● 1959d

In general there have been people stealing for years, not just phones. A regular thief used to pinch hoovers, another man used to pinch tools and put them down his trousers and another one would pinch anything he could get his hands on. A woman would come in with her son and put things in her bag, when she was caught going out of the shop her son turned round and started screaming at me, so I said your mothers not bothered about you she's already gone. With that he ran. After working in offices nearly all my life working in a shop was an eye opener. I even chased a tall young man round a post in the shop who was about to pinch an iron. In the end he put it down laughed and walked out.

Barbara Stevens ● 1959d

It is worth  bearing in mind that people are now encouraged to use their phones to order and pay for their purchases in restaurants - Pret were amongst the first to introduce and encourage this. For many the mobile phone is now also their "wallet".The main point here though is that the thieves seem to be acting with impunity as this has been going on for years on PHS so the question to be asked is what progress has been made by following-up on PRET and PHS CCTV data- the timing of the offences are known so this should be a very simple matter.

Timothy Horgan ● 1959d

@Ed. Thanks for your sarcastically copied police advice, with which I tend to agree and pretty much adhere to. Not sure what the irony was that you intended but hey hoTo be honest I’m really not sure why you’ve taken my stance so to heart though. I think you’ve lost the plot a bit to be fair. Your comparisons of catalytic converter theft and bike locks aren’t really the same unless you sit next to them in a coffee shop but perhaps you do. By all means live your life in your little idealistic ‘I’m not going to change because of those nasty criminals and let them dictate my behaviour’ style and I’m sure all will be well. However, it’s an unfortunate fact that these days, as much as you really should be able to show off your shiny expensive possessions wherever you feel fit, it maybe isn’t wise. Not that long ago I read an advisory account by a chap from Fulham on another site who had been mugged for his watch. He fended the attacker off with light injuries but came to the view, as did the police that he’d been clocked at the pub he’d been at and followed. Here’s the key thing, Ed, the guy was targeted, like it or not, by someone who’s probably done the same trick many times. Taking the ‘I shouldn’t have to change my behaviour’ line will be of no use when you’ve been duffed up and your £10k Tag Heuer has been ripped from your wrist. Might not have happened in Chipping Norton or Chiddingfold but in Fulham... not a complete surprise. Telling me off for saying people are daft for leaving a flashy phone on the table in a high risk environment  makes you sound like you’re shooting the messenger.

Freddie Francis ● 1959d

For years now the police have been running ads on radio and posters how to reduce crime in the belief that crime can be reduced by removing temptation for the criminals. It's a flawed argument but advertising or propaganda works. We now blame the victims when there is a crime. We no longer look or expect the police to solve it or our system to put people back on the straight path.Let's examine the the basic message regarding mobile phones. They are really saying do not use your phone while mobile! Yes help to reduce crime just use your mobile phone at home. And now the same with cars. Don't leave your car on the road - bring it indoors too!What nonsense - and where will it lead us to?But yes - carry on closing police stations and reducing police numbers and blaming the victims - just don't leave your home!Welcome to the UK - where the democracy is flaky at best and freedom is disappearing.

Ed Robinson ● 1959d

Warnings are often circulated alerting residents to what is happening and how to stay safe.

Philippa Bond ● 1959d

Many people don't have garages in London.

Philippa Bond ● 1959d

Isn't the truth that phone stealing is part of a crime surge you can expect in a time such as this when people (including crooks) are hard up? Leaving your phone available for said crooks to steal seems silly to me. It's not one of the Four Freedoms. It's common sense.

Alexander MacLeod ● 1959d

Freddie a few years ago you could have your phone snatched out of your hand and probably still going on now. Just for walking down the road. So nobody should go out then you won't get your phone stolen.

Barbara Stevens ● 1959d

I think it is a bit the same with both bikes and cars.  It is more of a problem if you own something that is particularly expensive and special and coveted by others.  We once inherited an office Golf GTi.  We didn't like it very much but we certainly didn't realise that it was something that the boy racers all seemed to want.  It was a problem and worry from the moment we took it over.  First it was the radio before we realised it could be removed and before it had been replaced it was broken into again, then there was the morning we found it wheel-less and sitting on bricks and then eventually one morning the conversation was "Where did we park the car last night?" "Underneath the lamp-post."  "Oh, I thought so."  It was actually a bit of a relief not worrying about it any more and getting up every time we heard the slightest noise in the street.  It is such a hassle every time you have to sort out break-ins and thefts etc... but you need to as not doing anything unfortunately encourages more.

Philippa Bond ● 1959d

Freddie here are the Met's recommendations - I hope you follow them:If you need to use your phone on the street, look out for anyone on a bike or a moped near you.Make it quick so you don’t become distracted.Don’t text while you’re walking – you won’t notice what’s going on around you.If that’s not possible, stand away from the roadside close to a building or wall so no one can come up behind youGoing hands free can prevent a thief from snatching your phone out of your hand.

Ed Robinson ● 1959d

You only have to look at how careless people are when it comes to catalytic converter theft.They leave cars in the street where anyone can come along and remove them and do not follow the Met's top recommendations of locking your car in a garage overnight!Bloody idiots - no wonder over 1,000 stolen in London each month.It's feeding the crocodile - don't blame the victim!

Ed Robinson ● 1959d

OK. I’ll concede the word stupid was perhaps a bit strong and ‘unwise’ might be more apt but I stand by the fact you need to be careful if not ‘streetwise’ or you might pay the price, literally and metaphiricallly when your phone’s stolen. Personally I err on the side of prevention. I really dont see how that is unreasonable.

Freddie Francis ● 1959d

I won't be leaving my phone out in any cafe as I saw this exact same method of theft used in the Putney High Street Pret only just a few days ago. That said, I don't really feel the desire to label all those that do stupid. People go to these places to relax and for a lot of us that'll mean having a phone out. If you can't relax in a cafe without being on the lookout for thieves using a pre-planned scheme like this then less people will go to these places. Might be different if you're just plain careless all the time and some scumbag just happens to find an easy target on the spur of the moment, but playing the I'm cleverer than all the idiots card in response to this seems a bit much to me.

Oliver Sampson ● 1959d

Perhaps Jane you can recommend a bicycle lock that will prevent it from being stolen?

Ed Robinson ● 1959d

Thank you, Jane.

Freddie Francis ● 1959d

......why is theft any different?Because not all crimes are equal. Victim blaming is of course appalling in the case of rape or murder. It's just unwise, as Freddie suggests, to leave your mobile phone on display where it can easily be stolen.

Jane Carter ● 1959d

People used to leave their front doors unlocked - what has changed?We get radio adverts and posters telling us to lock everything up as it reduces crime. Does it - where is the evidence? I believe this is "feed the crocodile mentality"!Lock you bike I'm told. Which lock should I use that will guarantee it not to be stolen? The answer is there is none on the market. The best advice they give you on cycling articles is lock it near a better bike and hope yours is not targeted. Again "feed the crocodile" mentality!Let's look at this a bit more factually:Phones have been reported stolen in various forums in coffee shops in both Richmond and Putney and other locations all using the same method.Now it could be that various unconnected people have suddenly woken up with the same urge and knowledge on stealing phones from coffee shops or it just could be the same people targeting different locations.Given it is more likely to be the same group of people that means that the thieves have not been identified and stopped. That is the job of the police. The solution is to catch the thieves not for everyone to lock their phone in a safe and never go out!Stop feeding the crocodile!

Ed Robinson ● 1959d

@Mike Warman. If you want to focus more on my lack of sympathy than the issue of a rising incidence of theft in coffee shops and the enabling of those theft by carelessness that’s fine with me. We’ll agree to disagree.

Freddie Francis ● 1959d

Of course we don't know whether these are personal or company owned phones left on coffee shop tables ... An interesting point I noted a few years ago when one of my teams looked after company BlackBerry devices was that more got lost or stolen when a new model came out ... so we started keeping a stock of old used models so we could replace them straight away ... (ah, remember in the days before I phones when all the City types wanted to show off their latest Blackberry in the wine bar ☺) Sorry off topic, but it is easy to have a lapse of concentration and get caught out, particularly if one's distracted trying to solkve something or in a rush ... 

Michael Ixer ● 1959d

Ok Freddie,I’ll make my point more directly.Of course people from time to time are careless and some of those times someone else takes advantage.  Do they expect sympathy from strangers?  Of course not. I do think however you expose your character when you write comments such as“ People being stupid enough to leave their phones in plain view leaves me with little sympathy though.”Of course it’s fine to think that but why do you feel the need to call people unknown to you stupid on a public forum?  Wouldn’t it be better if you don’t have something nice to say, to say nothingThere is a lot of negative comment here, so this is but one example that as others have picked up I thought I would also. Maybe sadly an unrealistic expectation of this forum though?I’ll leave you complain and criticise in peace now - have a nice evening!

Mike Warman ● 1960d

Nice twisting of my point but sure, leave your phone out all you like.  However, despite this being the second thread about phones being stolen from tables in coffee shops within a couple of days please go ahead and carry on regardless despite the warning of the very likely consequence. Nobody’s going to stop you. Out of interest, just to be clear on where you’re coming from with your ‘it’s not the victims fault’ argument, are you saying for instance, you would leave windows open at your house all night, leave the keys in your car, because hey, it’s not your  fault a criminal’s going to be tempted? I mean how can you be ‘blamed’ for that? Might try seeing how your insurance company views that little theory.

Freddie Francis ● 1960d

We do not blame the victims for other crimes why is theft any different?It is the fault of thief not the victim.I remember going to California a couple of decades ago and hearing victim blaming such as "it was their fault for being in that area". You realise that it is people's natural reaction to blame the victim as a way of reassuring themselves that it wouldn't happen to them.

Ed Robinson ● 1960d

Granted if you’re from out of town or from another country you might be taken unaware but if you are a Londoner you’d think people would be a bit more aware. FYI, writing this on the latest iPhone I think you can be sure, along with the fact I have been on the net probably longer than you that I do know about emails and all the other newfangled digital gubbins. But, unlike you it seems, I practice being careful and concious of my surroundings, one thing I never do is leave my phone on a table in a public place. If you do then maybe you really don’t deserve sympathy when your phone is stolen. Entirely your choice but it’s comparable to leaving bags and coats in cars. Your own look out. 😏 BTW, did you know you can put your phone on vibrate or even have it make a noise when you receive a text? You can even detect that when the phones in your pocket! Amazing eh?

Freddie Francis ● 1960d

Hi Freddie,People also use phones for email, whatsapp working etc.  Maybe things have moved on since your day?  Maybe not everyone scours social media to be aware of this.Still let’s hope you’re not caught unawares in any similar situation  as that’s most important eh ;-)

Mike Warman ● 1960d

It's common sense Martine.

Freddie Francis ● 1960d

See my post from the 10th! This sort of crime is clearly rife at the moment.

Oliver Sampson ● 1960d

You’re all heart, Freddie! It just takes one off guard moment for this to happen.  Also some people can be a bit vulnerable and naive.  

Martine Guy ● 1960d

This style of theft is so well-known you'd think the police would just set up a few traps for them. People being stupid enough to leave their phones in plain view leaves me with little sympathy though. It's not as if you wouldn't hear the phone in a pocket or bag.

Freddie Francis ● 1960d