Forum Topic

Electric

Feeling guilty you haven't gone electric?Well don't.  Manufacturing electric vehicles generates 63 per cent more carbon dioxide than making petrol or diesel ones.A new study shows that some-called "zero emissions" have to be driven for almost 50,000 miles on average, around 5yrs - before they are as green as your old gas guzzling clunker.The more electric vehicles we make, the worse the pollution. Pause for thought. What now for your green transport revolution?

Barbara Stevens ● 1944d22 Comments

> 1) The mileage range needs to  be increased. > This should in my opinion be c. 500-600 miles minimum. 500-600 miles? Who drives 5-600 miles in a day? Generally a long trip might be 250-300 miles say from London to Yorkshire or the like. And once or twice a year maybe. Normally there's be an overnight stop after that. I think very few people need - or want - to drive from one end of the country to the other in a single journey. To do that regularly, you're probably a lorry driver or a salesman! 95 percent of journies are 50 miles or less.

Mark Phillips ● 1933d

Looks like they were sold out on the 5th for the non-custom ones. Two days before the article I posted was published.But good news it looks like the custom build ones are still available according to their web site:Would make a great seasonal present! White exterior with coral interior look good - hint :)https://www.aptera.us/shop

Ed Robinson ● 1934d

Great article.  A good reason to look out for and try those car clubs I reckon.  I also think there will be new ways of charging in the street from homes. (I've seen leads trailed through trees into upper rooms.  There are rules...  but people prefer their own electricity to the street chargers - home electricity especially good if you have photovoltaics on the roof.)

Philippa Bond ● 1934d

Great article.  A good reason to look out for and try those car clubs I reckon.  I also think there will be new ways of charging in the street from homes. (I've seen leads trailed through trees into upper rooms.  There are rules...  but people prefer their own electricity to the street chargers.)

Philippa Bond ● 1934d

This is an interesting electric car development:https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/solar-power-electric-car-aptera-b1769879.htmlObviously more suited to the sun of San Diego than the tundra of Tromsø and for those that like the latest "toys" but an example oif the innovations to come. Remember how quickly CDs went from being a niche system for music connoisseurs to a commodity item for mobile entertainment and digital data of all types? I think one can expect rapid developments in EVs over the next decade ...

Michael Ixer ● 1937d

https://powerforpeople.org.uk/the-local-electricity-bill/petition-1And check out who is supporting this.

Philippa Bond ● 1940d

Electric cars are already cheaper to own over their lifetime compared to petrol cars. You have to pay more upfront but low running costs make them cheaper in the long run:https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8540469/Electric-vehicles-CHEAPER-petrol-cars.html

William Smith ● 1942d

"manufactured in a carbon neutral balance sheet manner"I think after Dieselgate we will have to see the audit.But there are some good news. Someone DIY changed their 2011 Nissan Leaf battery pack extending it's life for very little cost.https://thedriven.io/2020/11/04/nissan-leaf-owner-upgrades-ev-battery-for-under-a3500/The other thing which is more important is new lighter EV vehicles may come into production. A bit better than the Sinclair C5 I hope.Vehicles including tyres and brakes have all got bigger over time. Just look at the original mini. Do we need the modern car and weight for travelling 20mph in town?Anyway perhaps the big wheel guards hide the Flintstone drive system yabadabadoo :)https://electrek.co/2020/12/07/aptera-super-efficient-electric-car-1000-miles-range-solar-power/

Ed Robinson ● 1942d

Electric cars are still evolving. I think you forget that cars are just one in a range of transport types. If one's plodding around short distances in London and can't use public transport, cycle or walk then something like an eGolf is surely adequate? I doubt most people will need a range of more than 250 miles in one day - or do all those corporates execs in California with Teslas haves a problem?You can still have fun in a Massa or Aston on an off road track - and with no speed cameras: don't confuse having fun with getting from A to B responsibly and safely ...And don't forget, we now have Formula E  ...

Michael Ixer ● 1942d

Today's news:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9025747/Britains-electric-car-forecourt-opens-today-Braintree-Essex.htmlYou can generate your own electricity here on a bike while you wait...

Philippa Bond ● 1942d

"As a car lover it isn't the 0-60 speed that gets me out of bed, its the passion of the car, the sound of the exhaust, the crackle when you ease off the accelerator."Oddly, you forgot to include in this list, the stinking pollution that contributes to the premature deaths of 40,000 people in the UK every year...

Richard Carter ● 1942d

There is still a long way to go with electric cars until they are considered useable for every day life:1) The mileage range needs to  be increased. This should in my opinion be c. 500-600 miles minimum.  2) Faster charging and way more charging spots - the infrastructure isn't here at all yet.Also, as a petrol head, having to buy an electric car saddens me. As a car lover it isn't the 0-60 speed that gets me out of bed, its the passion of the car, the sound of the exhaust, the crackle when you ease off the accelerator. Electric cars do nothing for us as a group. The whine sounds like the DLR. Prices of 2nd hand / classic cars will only increase. I really hope petrol cars can still be produced and I, for one, will be buying the 2nd hand petrol cars for as long as I can (hopefully for the rest of my life).

Gabrielle OMahony ● 1942d

There is a Green Deal.  There is also some scepticism about Govt management of these schemes but then there seems to be scepticism is some quarters about any slight change at all.  A major element of the deal seems to be the use of air source heat pumps instead of gas central heating.  Most people would only change at the end of the life of their current boiler.  I understand that these air source heat pumps are similar to the AC units that you see hanging on walls in hotter countries and I understand that they can be used to either heat or cool buildings.It would be good to be able see things like this in action and hear from those already using them..

Philippa Bond ● 1942d

sorry but if you buy a VW ID 3 then it's carbon neutral at purchaseno need to do 50k miles first.https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2019/11/how-volkswagen-makes-the-id-3-carbon-neutral.html

Matt Palmer ● 1943d

Hi Sue, yes most people it would take 10yrs or even more to drive 50,000. Especially if just using for shopping, work, or a holiday. HOPE YOUR OK.

Barbara Stevens ● 1943d

As I noted on the other post, this is not going to be an overnight change. Electric cars will reduce pollution and greenhouse gas emissions (except brake dust and rubber particles) almost immediately.  Manufacturing process will become more efficient as volumes increase and all manufacturing processes should become greener in time as they use fewer hydrocarbon product for their energy sources.

Michael Ixer ● 1943d

I think you're right Barbara, I misunderstand something, because almost all cars do more than 50k miles. Therefore proving a net benefit in the carbon production.There's no doubt that currently electric vehicles are more energy consuming to build (and it should be noted that the news article that sue posted ONLY refers to one particular vehical make, which is low volume and therefore you would expect to not benefit from improved economies of scale), but that will improve over time.Also note that the health related problem emissions are moved away from urban areas like PHS, another positive.

John Gorst ● 1943d

That's a very good point you made about the Audi Barbara.  Your original post about having to drive 50,000 miles before electric cars are 'greener' has been in the news for some time.  It would have taken me 10 years to clock up that amount lol.  It is true that the study was commissioned by the car manufacturers that Richard has listed, but similar results have been shown by studies conducted by Volkswagen comparing the e-Golf against the diesel Golf.The article in The Sunday Times published at the end of November is behind a paywall but here is a similar report from the Metro:Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/27/electric-cars-need-50000-miles-before-theyre-greener-than-petrols-13665953/?ito=cbshare

Sue Hammond ● 1943d

John I think you misunderstood, most people it would take 5yrs to drive 50,000 miles. At a charging point at Sainsbury's in Richmond I was watching a young man charging his electric Audi. I was rather surprised as he had slid the Audi sign the four rings to one side and he was charging the vehicle directly in the center of the front of the vehicle. This I thought was rather stupid as even a small accident bumping into another car would have damaged the point of charging to the car. Perhaps another fault in design a bit like the cycle lanes.

Barbara Stevens ● 1943d

Surely most vehicles do more than 50,000 miles and last longer than 5 years?

John Gorst ● 1943d

WATT.

Barbara Stevens ● 1943d

It's really a good idea to check before you post stuff like this. The report that claimed the 50,000 mile figure was produced by a company supported by Aston Martin, Volvo, Honda, etc. Now, I wonder why they'd be pushing something like this? After all, it's not as if they're interested parties, is it?For a more disinterested view see, for example, https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/astongate-fake-emission-figures-embattled-carmaker-sock-liebreich and https://twitter.com/AukeHoekstra/status/1332464525602410498. Oh, and an academic paper in Nature Sustainability - a peer reviewed journal as opposed to a very dubious sock puppet outfit found "net emission reductions from electric cars and heat pumps in 59 world regions over time:"https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-0488-7

Richard Carter ● 1944d