Forum Topic

Hush-hush war on cars

The link below is for an article published by the Conservative Woman and it is dated 10 April 2020.  Hmmmmmmhttps://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/the-hush-hush-war-on-cars/?fbclid=IwAR1HJYwMIflxGCS3MCfu79xRZH8_xQTdMj_X1Em0G-WLHd-sWvpMpkMqwRc

Ivonne Holliday ● 1986d13 Comments

Completely agree that train fares should be cheaper.A recent webinar about working from home -v-working from the office showed that the majority of people wanted to commute less and would prefer about a half and half split between working from home and in the office.  In order to encourage people to travel by train into London rather than drive tickets need not only to be cheaper (other countries have better and cheaper public transport).  Season tickets would need to be different because of new working practices.I understand that it is expected that there will be more electric cycles and electric scooters using the cycle lanes being created right now.  It is lovely to see the number of parents who are cycling home with their children from school when we are grabbing our daily walk.  I haven't been out and about when they would be going to school but hopefully there is an increase then as well.

Philippa Bond ● 1985d

Richard,Of course the Treasury is considering road charging; the TfL bailout must be paid for somehow! And penalizing motorists is the easiest thing on earth - the soft target. It was also the main idea behind the LTNs, meaning roads are closed to traffic and traffic using main roads must pay for the privilege.Cycling and walking are a good start (even if not all are able to do so) to the solution, but they are not the end all and be all.  Far from it!You mention climate change and I do agree, it is frightening and it must be dealt with, sensibly!  I think it was you who mentioned in a post on another thread that 30% of the pollution in London comes from motor vehicles.  I would not dispute that, perhaps, but would certainly ask where the other 70% comes from.  Because if you have to fight climate change, it must be done so as a whole and not only with the 30%.The other thing I would say is that, roughly speaking, more than 60% of the motor vehicles in London belong to people who do not reside in London or companies not based in London; they come from all sorts of places and directions outside London. After all, the wealth (and power) of the country is centered in London, is it not?  It is also true that motor vehicles is a category that includes a lot more than just cars.  Do emergency services vehicles not fall under it, too? Would electric bicycles and e-scooters not fall in this category too?Trying to go back to the 1950s level of traffic in London is utopia because the density of population in London has grown exponentially since then and continues to do so today.  Luxury flats in high rise buildings ring a bell?There are many other aspects that must be looked into at the same time and dare I say, one of them is the cost of public transport which should be reduced drastically, particularly fares on national railways. I cannot see this happening, can you?These are just small pickings in a very complex and wide problem that needs to be sorted out as a matter of urgency.  It also requires a change in culture which cannot be achieved overnight.  But perhaps, just perhaps, COVID-19 and the lockdowns have provided the beginning of a solution?

Ivonne Holliday ● 1986d

It was lovely and so easy in Edinburgh being able to get easily out of the airport into town.Ideally we would have better public transport here in London.  Here we are fighting to get easy access to tube stations.  If it was easier to get onto trains to take us out to other cities and to the country I'm sure fewer people would use their cars.  So many cars in London spend the majority of the time parked in streets making them less accessible to ambulances and fire engines etc.  It all needs more joining up.

Philippa Bond ● 1986d

Sian Berry has posted a piece on road charging in the Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/road-charging-system-motorists-climate-change-b1741047.html) saying that even the Treasury is considering it.

Richard Carter ● 1986d

Many cars already collect metrics and have black boxes and location monitoring plus communications for insurance purposes and diagnostic purposes so adding road charging over the next decade shouldn't be that complex. Although this government will probably hand a multi billion pound contract to one of their chums who has a company that mends shoes ... Now I expect someone's going to raise a privacy issue here. What happens when the monthly bill arrives and one's spouse has been noted visiting the place where their ex lives? I suspect this will come down to smart diving licences - swipe the contactless licence, enter  PIN and one's electric car turns on and its use is linked to the specific driver? No arguments then about who was driving at 60 past that 30 mph speed camera, and you get an individual itemised monthly bill. Plus the advantage that hire car companies don't have to manage it. Overseas visitors - temporary driving licence cards, although hopefully there'd be a european standard we could join.

Michael Ixer ● 1986d

"The biggest challenge is overcoming govt inertia."I think the car lobby might be even more difficult to overcome!

Richard Carter ● 1986d

If something that sophisticated could be made to work (ie not given to a Harding or a Grayling to oversee) then we might have a workable solution that meets most objections. The biggest challenge is overcoming govt inertia.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1986d

"Maybe road pricing (ie tolls) might finally do it."The concept of road pricing has been around since the 1960s, when R J Smeeth chaired a working group for the Ministry of Transport which produced "Road pricing: the economic and technical possibilities" (1964 - https://archive.org/details/op1265810-1001). A number of eminent transport economists including Christopher Foster advised the group, and put forward the idea that drivers should pay the (congestion) costs that they impose on others.The report received a dusty answer from the dinosaurs at the Ministry and it was shelved, although when I worked at the GLC later that decade the idea of road pricing was still in active discussion - although, as now, there were those who thought it an imposition on the "right" to drive. However, the climate emergency makes the concept even more relevant, and with GPS it is possible for road pricing to be much more sophisticated than simply imposing tolls. Using this, the price paid could be related to the level of congestion incurred. This itself would remove the objection that country-dwellers would be unfairly penalised, so perhaps the idea will come to fruit after all - not before time.

Richard Carter ● 1986d

And just to add, better if those cars at the stations are eGolfs!

Michael Ixer ● 1986d

Just to add to what Jonathan has said. Many cities - London and Edinburgh as examples - cannot sustain a high level of car traffic as evidenced by congestion, difficulties parking and pollution - so reasonably priced public transport alternatives are needed. That's not anti car, it's just being pragmatic. There is obvioiusly a need for better public transport outside the large conurbations and for new solutions that don't remove the use of cars but include them in and integrated transport service enabling reduction in their use. For example, I believe in Austria when you book an intercity train ticket you can also book a Zipcar at your distinction. This means one can take advantage of fast train services for long distances but have the flexibility of a car when arriving at a destination that has limited public transport thus avoiding using a car for the complete journey.   

Michael Ixer ● 1986d

That’s true of smaller towns across the country but the major urban centres mostly have transport systems as good as London’s.  Manchester has built a brilliant tram system that had become self financing (before Covid) and taken thousands of cars off the roads. Sheffield too. Glasgow has its own underground and Newcastle has its metro trains. So while car use will remain essential for many it can be greatly reduced in the big cities where most of the population lives - if people can be persuaded out of their cars in the first place. Maybe road pricing (ie tolls) might finally do it.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1986d

I haven’t read the article.  However it’s easy to reduce car use when you live in London, when you have tube, bus and rail to choose from. Try living outside the capital, where buses and trains are once every half an hour and that’s in the suburbs and towns. When you live in the countryside, a car is a necessity.

Martine Guy ● 1986d

Heaven forfend that we should try to tackle the climate emergency by trying to reduce our reliance on cars! Don't they realise that it's our god-given right to drive wherever and whenever we want? So much more important than any attempt to render the planet liveable in. PS for the hard of understanding: that's meant to be irony.

Richard Carter ● 1986d