Forum Topic

Air pollution campaign

There’s a good article in today’s Evening Standard about air pollution in our part of London.  The challenge is, as most campaigners recognise, persuading those of us who remain addicted to our cars (especially diesels) to use them less, if at all.  A further challenge is how to clean up the many lorries and vans we all still rely on to keep the economy going. It’s not a binary health v economy choice because respiratory diseases shorten lives, cost the NHS time and resources and damage the environment. We all need to think carefully about our choices in this time of climate emergency. https://www.standard.co.uk/futurelondon/theairwebreathe/ulez-extension-london-air-pollution-a4572093.html

Jonathan Callaway ● 1989d30 Comments

And not just in China: according to Alfa Laval (who presumably have an interest), district heating accounts  for more than 70 percent of all heat distributed in Russia, making it the "single largest product market, worth an estimated 33 billion US dollars in annual sales": (https://www.alfalaval.com/media/stories/district-heating/russian-district-heating-in-transition/).District heating was and still is significant all over the former Soviet territory: just Google 'district heating in the former soviet bloc' to see references to it all over that region.

Richard Carter ● 1957d

China has for years been using extensive district heating and cooling systems in its housing.  This was all using fossil fuel but they are also now moving towards more sustainable alternatives.

Philippa Bond ● 1957d

But getting back on topic we shouldn't forget the growing energy demands China, India etc and their possible switch to electric vehicles ...https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2020/11/china-s-electric-vehicle-push-spells-doom-and-gloom-for-oil-demand-growth/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_campaign=New%20EandT%20News%20-%20Automation%20FINAL%20-%20NON%20MEMBER&utm_medium=Newsletters%20-%20E%26T%20News&utm_content=E%26T%20News%20-%20Non-Members&utm_term=723521

Michael Ixer ● 1957d

And many Turkish Restaurants serve vegan hummus, felafel and other middle eastern vegan dishes. (Useful when travelling outside of the big cities in Germany.) It wasn't a major consideration in the 1950s, although my mother had been a veggie for a short period during her late teens in the 1940s.

Michael Ixer ● 1957d

Jonathan, we moved out of London c1960,it wasn't too contested in those days. My friends and I played in the backstreets with little concern of traffic, plant of parking spaces as well! 

Michael Ixer ● 1957d

I am not too sure that diesel cars were considered to be cleaner at the time they were promoted as cheaper.  They are incredibly efficient (lower consumption of diesel) when driving long distances constantly.  They are not as efficient in cities.The question of emissions came a lot later though.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1957d

I also meant to say Green Lanes is constantly congested and hardly wide enough for trolley buses.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1957d

My daughter and son in law live not too far from there (Seven Sisters). We had a lovely summer picnic in Lordship Rec. great open space. And one or two of the many Turkish restaurants on Green Lanes are brilliant value for money. Not sure there are any vegan ones though!

Jonathan Callaway ● 1957d

The new trolley buses look like trams with multiple entry/exit points (I won't use the term bendy bus).I suspect London like other cities go for battery buses which of course will be heavier. The charging / maintenance will probably be done by the manufacturers - BYD seem a big player.It's a shame looking back almost 100 years, that London and the UK haven't done better.https://www.sustainable-bus.com/trolley-and-tramway/12-double-articulated-trolleybuses-hess-lausanne-switzerland/

Ed Robinson ● 1963d

Interesting how we seem to have gone from electric to diesel and are now reversing that ...https://www.classicbuses.co.uk/trolley.htmlhttps://mappinglondon.co.uk/2018/trolleybus-tram-routes-1947/I remembered the trolley buses - probably in Green Lanes and Lordship Lane before we moved from West Green to Essex, then when I returned to London in 1970 they'd all gone.

Michael Ixer ● 1963d

Several European cities including in Germany still have trolley bus networks. They’re more flexible than teams and the infrastructure much cheaper to instal (ask Edinburgh Council!)

Jonathan Callaway ● 1963d

Several European cities including in Germany still have trolley bus networks. They’re more flexible than teams and the infrastructure much cheaper to instal (ask Edinburgh Council!)

Jonathan Callaway ● 1963d

There are fewer components requiring maintenance on an electric drive chain 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 1963d

Interesting that many of the former Soviet republics retain trolley buses (there's a list of all the world countries that still have them at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trolleybus_systems) and, despite decades of under investment, they still work pretty well.

Richard Carter ● 1963d

All the difficult decisions were just kicked down the road by short term politicians.Interesting article here on THE PROS AND CONS OF THE TROLLEY-BUSIt's amazing how far we have come in almost 100 years.http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/15th-june-1926/30/the-pros-and-cons-of-the-trolley-bus

Ed Robinson ● 1963d

"Had FairFuelUK not campaigned to scrap the fuel duty escalator, fuel tax today would be 83.33p/lt rather than 57.95p/lt, 43.8% higher.Today you'd be paying £1.70 per litre"So this was why the fuel escalator was done away with - lobbying.  Macron had to change his tactics after the Gilets Jaunes protested against fuel tax.

Philippa Bond ● 1964d

https://busandtrainuser.com/2020/03/05/end-of-the-road-for-pioneering-hydrogen-buses/Let's hope they'll be back soon...  Wrightbus is now owned by the Bamford Bus Co owned by the entrepreneur Jo Bamford son of the JCB owner. He also owns Ryse who produce hydrogen.https://ryse.team/news/

Philippa Bond ● 1979d

https://airqualitynews.com/2020/02/19/west-london-gets-its-first-all-electric-bus-route/

Philippa Bond ● 1980d

That is a good article in the Evening Standard.  I remember 30+ years ago changing my route so that the baby buggy was not at exhaust pipe level. I was surprised that US law appeared to be stronger than UK law.  It was pretty devastating for VW but it wasn't only VW that was involved in this.  I think the group action here is ongoing.  Is there still a scrappage scheme?I also remember the Lee Nelson/Simon Brodkin stunt at a VW presentation at a car show.

Philippa Bond ● 1980d

Philippa they call it Dieselgate.I believe one VW exec got 7 years in prison by the US District Court in Detroit. "Schmidt originally faced up to 169 years in prison on 11 felony counts".https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/6/16743308/volkswagen-oliver-schmidt-sentence-emissions-scandal-prisonI have no idea why we still have diesel buses on the high street.

Ed Robinson ● 1980d

I remember when everyone was changing to diesel cars.  They were definitely cheaper to run when doing a lot of mileage.  I could never understand why they were considered to be cleaner - because they used to make me wheeze.  Now we find that there was cheating going on over their emissions.  The court cases still continue now years later here in the UK.  VW are now concentrating on making electric cars.

Philippa Bond ● 1981d

Correction. Only the south end of PHS is a red route. There is a no loading sign 7am till 7pm so this is a WBC issue.Just got a lung full of routemaster diesel

Ed Robinson ● 1981d

I believe it is a red route which has cameras - I'm not sure about loading times. But as you say Timothy that is not the same as keeping traffic moving. The URR/PHS junction is regularly blocked too frequently. Do we still have traffic police?Bridge traffic from PHS & Putney Bridge Road then merge with LRR to go into a single lane over the bridge! Complete madness  and even that lane is blocked sometimes by buses pulling away from the bridge bus stops. I had no idea that the middle of the bridge was such a tourist attraction on non boat race days.

Ed Robinson ● 1981d

t would help if traffic wardens were more active on PHS - especially now that Hammersmith Bridge is closed and Wandsworth having limited use.I frequently see lorries unloading during restricted hours. The biggest culprit is KFC (I have pics) but that area between Putney Bridge Rd. and the bridge is a particular choke point as the traffic from PHS and Putney Bridge Rd. merges there and is often forced onto one lane because of trucks unloading. I never see a traffic warden there  and I assume the cameras are not monitored as the offences continue. I would have thought that PHS would have been allocated extra wardens or policeto keep traffic moving under the present circumstances of increased traffic using Putney Bridge.

Timothy Horgan ● 1981d

https://www.futurebuild.co.uk/futurebuildnow-action-webinar/

Philippa Bond ● 1982d

You would have enjoyed today's Futurebuild webinar.  There must be a recording.  It was on air, soil, water and energy.

Philippa Bond ● 1982d

This was interesting:https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2020/10/who-s-blame-tfl-s-funding-crisis-it-s-not-sadiq-khan

Philippa Bond ● 1984d

And equally, that when he was Mayor he scrapped Livingstone's westward extension of the congestion zone, claiming of the plan that "It will be a marginal increase in traffic that will result. As for increases in CO2, they are trivial from the change we are bringing about. This is the right thing to do from a democratic point of view, and an economic point of view." And now he's trying to impose a far greater scheme on TfL by extending the zone to the whole of the area inside the North and South Circulars.  To use his own language, he's trying to deal TfL a punishment beating for purely spiteful reasons.

Richard Carter ● 1986d

Absolutely typical that Boris would run away from road charging when he was Mayor and want it now that he isn't and the incumbent isn't a Tory.

Philippa Bond ● 1986d

Not to mention buses & ambulances.The problem is it is also a source of revenue for TFL.Given the current circumstances there may not be much public transport left by the time it comes in.Not to mention the politics around a proper scrappage scheme. It looks like Boris is pushing for more road charging - something he ran away from when he was mayor. There will be some angry headlines when it is implemented - I wonder how far he will run this time?

Ed Robinson ● 1988d