Forum Topic

Very unpleasant incident on the Upper Richmond Road

On Nextdoor, Emily Reed has reported a shocking attack on her son yesterday. I can't provide a link (perhaps because I viewed it on the app?) but here's the text of her post:On Tuesday 22 September at 7pm our 11 year old son was chased and attacked on his way home from a Karate Class at The Putney Methodist Church on The Upper Richmond Road.It was his first experience of independence - as we usually escort him to and from all classes.Our son and his friend were approached by a gang of at least 4 older boys on bikes at the junction of Charlwood Road and Norroy Road. They chased our boys down Charlwood Road, Clarendon Drive, down Gamlen Road and onto Hotham Road.During the chase our son and his friend lost their shoes.  Our boys were on foot.When our son reached our house one boy held him and then his friend punched and threw our son to the ground. Our neighbour came out and the boys didn’t stop or run away.  When I came out one of the boys told me “Don’t f*ck with me”These are young boys (probably 12 to 14) in secondary school.  They aren’t intimated or scared by adults. Our son was told they have weapons and they aren’t scared to use them.  The Police were called who arrived 4 ½ hours later.Our son and his friend are, understandably, traumatised, scared and our son is sore, his head aches and his face is swollen. This is terrifying.Thankfully we do have CCTV at our house and caught two of the main culprits in the act on camera. The images aren’t perfect but hopefully are good enough to ID them.If you recognise any of these children please let us know.They need to be stopped and we don’t want this to happen to other children.It was obviously very distressing for all concerned, a horrible incident and my sympathies are with the family. But almost as distressing, is the fact that it was 4½ hours before the police deigned to turn up: compare that with the fact that earlier in the day, for XR's completely non-violent and non-obstructive demonstration (see http://www.putneysw15.com/default.asp?section=info&page=conxrdemo001.htm) they managed to send two police cars and three officers, one of whom was desperate to find something - anything - with which to charge the demonstrators and was disappointed that even a request to base couldn't produce anything. There's something very wrong with their priorities there.

Richard Carter ● 1308d61 Comments

https://wandsworth.gov.uk/community-safety/owl-online-watch-link/

Philippa Bond ● 1296d

A similar incident happened in Strathville Rd, off Merton Rd, on 21st September. Four young boys followed him and tried to strangle him, but neighbour's stepped in to help the boy. His father got punched by one of them. Two boys were taken away in a police van. Richmond & Twickenham Times. Page 9.

Barbara Stevens ● 1298d

So are people registered with OWL as per my earlier post?https://wandsworth.gov.uk/community-safety/owl-online-watch-link/

Philippa Bond ● 1305d

The other question is what will the police do now?  Does the school these kids attend (if there is one) know who they are?  We do need to know what happens next so we can be reassured that troublemakers are dealt with the right way.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1306d

Is that certain? Because that's not what the article says"The mother told PutneySW15 that they have *possibly* identified the assailants through the help of social media and the CCTV images"

Matt Palmer ● 1306d

Really pleased to hear that.

Barbara Stevens ● 1306d

Great news.  Thanks Alan

Craig Fordham ● 1306d

Brilliant news!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1306d

And a key bit of information - the boys are now identified.

Alan Sherman ● 1306d

@Jonathan 16.01"Incidentally I didn’t raise the family background issue, I was just responding  to the point raised."No you didn't, I did and that's why it was jumped on.  The trouble is Jonathan that people who have never worked in the public sector often have little knowledge of how life is for many people.  Reality often isn't very nice ...

Sue Hammond ● 1306d

Richard, as you’re quoting me here perhaps I should respond.  It would appear that my unconscious bias training is overdue!  If I’m allowed a plea in mitigation I would point to 15 years as a magistrate reading presentence reports.  This leads inescapably to generalised conclusions about the sort of family background that features all too often in the lives of those who end up in court. Of course we judge every case on its merits but clear patterns are evident. In further mitigation I might mention that listening to my wife’s stories of the families she had to deal with as a social worker must also have had its unconscious effect. Incidentally I didn’t raise the family background issue, I was just responding  to the point raised.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1306d

This now on the front page of the forum. with a picture of the parents. Also there were 4 boys after the two little ones.

Barbara Stevens ● 1306d

Whilst it seems logical that violence in the media must spur violence in real life, particularly by young people, the evidence suggests otherwise: see, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_the_effects_of_violence_in_mass_media#Media_violence_and_youth_violence.Once again, jumping to conclusions isn't always the wisest policy...

Richard Carter ● 1306d

Karate is great for confidence in children, once these boys outgrow the Putney class I recommend the Budokwai in South Ken, the oldest judo club in Europe with excellent karate classes for youngsters (and adults) - very close to Chelsea & Westminster hospital on the no. 14 route.

Adam Tripp ● 1306d

There are police in Putney? I doubt that very much.

James Morris ● 1306d

I agree with the above comments, but feel that the increased glorification of violence by Tarantino et al has enforced the idea that beating the hell out of people is cool and macho.  The constant applauding of these graphic scenes manufactured on stage sets has normalised violence to such a degree that vulnerable youngsters can access violent pornography and video games at the click of a mouse.

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 1307d

Indeed, as Barbara Stevens' own commendable experience illustrates.

Richard Carter ● 1307d

Sue: Why do you need to be so aggressive when you disagree with someone? Are all single parents doing a bad job?  There are many variations in family functioning and, to give one example, it is surely better for a child to grow up with a loving single parent rather than in a two parent family where parents are are always fighting.

Caroline Whitehead ● 1307d

Well, Sue, ignoring the silly stuff about the Guardian (do try to get over it) , doesn't this comment from earlier in this thread sound to you like prejudice?  "the reality in the society we live in is that there are too many single or no parent “families” around who cannot or will not cope with mutinous teenagers."Now for all any of us know, the boys in this unpleasant attack could be from single- or non-parent families, but there is no evidence that they were and it is lazy prejudice to assume it.

Richard Carter ● 1307d

Why do you assume it's prejudice against single parents Richard?  If you drop your own baseless assumption and think about it logically you might reach a different conclusion.  You might even acknowledge that two parents have more time to educate and supervise their kids than one parent struggling with all the daily pressures of life, would have on their own?  However living a comfy life in your Putney bubble, and indoctrinated with lefty Guardian woke claptrap, that scenario probably wouldn't ring any bells with you.

Sue Hammond ● 1307d

I'm somewhat disturbed by some of the responses to this issue on this forum - in particular, the baseless assumption that it's all down to bad parenting in single-parent families. It could, of course, be true, but making this kind of assumption, based largely on prejudice rather than evidence, doesn't help anyone.

Richard Carter ● 1307d

"that is what we pay taxes for wasting their time in the High Street while your Anna's [Eh?] with their banners. Then the Police didn't have time to go to the little boy who was attacked"As usual, you've got things exactly the wrong way round: in actuality, the problem lies with the absurd police response to a completely peaceful demonstration that wasn't even affecting the flow of traffic, much less causing any kind of disturbance. What priorities led to their sending TWO police cars to deal with that demo but doing nothing for four and a half hours in their (lack of) response to a street mugging? That's the question you should be asking.PS: In any case, the police "action" on the demo was in the morning, whilst the police non-action was in the evening, so it's simply wrong to say they "didn't have time to go to the little boy who was attacked."

Richard Carter ● 1307d

Oh Matt, that is what we pay taxes for wasting their time in the High Street while your Anna's with their banners. Then the Police didn't have time to go to the little boy who was attacked. I suggest you stop for a while so they can see what's really going on in the High Street, instead of your lot continually wasting police time.

Barbara Stevens ● 1307d

That might be a start in the right direction. When you work in an office all day, you would not believe what goes on in the shops and how many thefts there really are.

Barbara Stevens ● 1307d

Much as I agree with the sentiment....isnt this what we pay taxes for?

Matt Palmer ● 1307d

I personally think we should see if the BID would fund two external security guards via same company West End use. You have two large Eastern European security guards. They patrol the train station area, high street and URR. LRR is fine. I can assure you these guys aren’t to be messed with and these little scummy twats won’t be so blooming cocky and bully once these men have got hold of them!!!!

Nick Gulliford ● 1307d

Ed, on the couple of occasions recently, the staff have been shouting for the Security Guard and he's no where to be seen.

Barbara Stevens ● 1307d

Barbara,A few weeks ago I witnessed some brave Sainsbury staff  members detaining someone. Over an hour later the police had not arrived.We are now at the stage where even the small local supermarkets have security guards.

Ed Robinson ● 1307d

Michael, as you say your cousin was brought up in a different area that was so much harder, perhaps the Council are rehousing people from different areas into Putney, that's why it looks like it's changing. The funniest thing I've seen this week was at Sainsbury's as I was coming out of the shop an older man with a white stick was being chased by a Sainsbury's staff as he'd pinched something, they got the bag from him, then they realised there was two of the men. But they let them go just got the bag off him. They were not young either.

Barbara Stevens ● 1307d

Ivonne. Things do seem more violent to what I remember from my own experience but I remember the mods/rockers did have knives (see article below) and my cousin, who grew up on a council estate rather than a suburban dormitory estate tells me I had life easy ...http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/18/newsid_2511000/2511245.stmHowever, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have better police, education, youth and social services to improve the situation - and perhaps leaders with better personal moral standards than our current MP to set an example?

Michael Ixer ● 1307d

I agree Michael, every stage of growing up had its problems. You say "Perhaps some things are worse, other things better?"  My problem is not with "bullying behaviour" which I detest.  the problem is the violence and the freedom to carry knives that make them feel superior for a better word.West Side Story showed a lot of problems with gangs and violence.Today, the main difference is not their opposing views. it is the fact that some gangs are out there "for the kill", quite literally.  Horrific!!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1307d

What I can't understand is why the larger boy was going for the much younger child did they know each other. Or was he trying to pinch something from him.

Barbara Stevens ● 1307d

Nick, I remember the mods and rockers fighting in Brighton back in the 60s. It does seem worse at the moment, particularly the use of knives, but as you say we're more aware of some things because of social media. (And as I said in my post above, perhaps some have rose tinted glasses for the past.) I believe there is less respect of authority but I think that's also true of adults for adults as well as children for adults. I suspect that's possibly because we know more about people who lead organisations and feel they  don't deserve our respect. Newspapers don't try and protect government ministers as the press barons did in the 1950s and 60s - after all, they'd probably all been to the same schools. As Jonathan says, it's a different world now. Perhaps some things are worse, other things better?

Michael Ixer ● 1307d

Well I remember Mods & Rockers, must admit they liked a good punch up. But more dangerous now even for a grown up to intervene in case knives are involved.

Barbara Stevens ● 1307d

Ladies and Gents, the whole kids fighting, and disadvantaged kids fighting smarter kids in blazers has been going on for years and years though. Surely we all remember this . I remember being away at school and the town school boys targeting us anytime we walked out of school premises. I remember being at school in Richmond 30 years ago and again pupils being kicked whilst at bus stops etc I would say what’s changed is the knives and weapons not the bullying. That’s always been here but now it’s known about and escalated due to social mediaAs I said it breaks my heart. I spoke to my wife about it this evening. I asked whether these boys gangs would ever go for young girls isolated walking back from school on their own and hound them. If they do then that’s even more of an issue. My theory was that it’s bravado targeting other boys?

Nick Gulliford ● 1307d

Also Caroline, years ago you had clubs for youngsters table tennis etc. Older people running clubs so children had somewhere to go. Is there anywhere on these estates children can go instead roaming the streets causing trouble. My son went to the air cadets. But also his friend and my son would cut peoples hedges or clean their cars only local and a paper round early in the morning. I think if children see you working it makes them want to. I used to take my son up the hospital now and again when I ran the snack bar in the hospital at weekends. He would help me fill the machines, or clear the tables. or go for a ride on one of the trolley's, but I think he liked sitting with nurse while they chatted up the porter's etc. in their break.

Barbara Stevens ● 1307d

For ten years in the 80s & 90s I ran a day assessment center for children and families for Wandsworth Social Services. The center was staffed by social workers and teachers and we had part-time psychiatrists and a psychologist. The children and their families presented with a wide spectrum of problems, including children who were engaged in various kinds of delinquency.  However I can truthfully say that by far the majority of parents were concerned about their children and accepting of whatever help could be offered. Some were struggling with poverty, but most in addition had problems stemming from their own upbringing which impacted on their ability to bring up their children.In those days there were six area Social Work Teams in different areas of the Borough and each of these  had a specialist team dedicated to working with under 5s and their families. Wandsworth ran a number of Childrens' Homes, Family Centres and Day Nurseries, some of which provided specialist care. There was an active Training Team which provided, amongst other things, training in family therapy. There were also several ILEA Child Guidance Clinics in the Borough providing psychiatric, psychological and social work  treatment. In addition ILEA ran day and boarding special schools for 'maladjusted' children, several of which were in Wandsworth. In the wider community Youth Services catered for the teenagers.As the 90s progressed it became evident that more and more of these provisions were disappearing and today only a very few exist. There is no point in assessing anyone if there are no resources to meet their needs, and eventually the Day Assessment Centre closed.

Caroline Whitehead ● 1307d

Thanks, I have seen the photos. The ring leader looks about 17. Plus he could well be carrying a weapon in my view.Anyway I’ve been out on bike and car today having a look around to see who might be the trouble makers. Nothing to spot today but I will continue doing this next week.

Nick Gulliford ● 1307d

The truth is society has changed and not for the better. I was always brought up to respect my elders and betters and even the rough kids at school showed a modicum of respect to those in authority.  We can all look back to those days but given the ills in today’s society we should look to what practical steps can be taken to deal with kids from chaotic family backgrounds. These steps have to involve recourse to public services, whether police, schools or social services. It will get even worse otherwise.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1307d

Thank you Caroline, I brought my son up on my own till he was 16 because I divorced his father, I always told him to tell the truth. Also before mobiles I always told him to reverse the charges so he could ring home if worried if he needed a cab to get home. My dad died when I was 12 so I don't see the problem, I've always worked hard, it's the ones who don't care or about their children.

Barbara Stevens ● 1307d

When I was young and most others in my age group had respect for their parents, but some of today's parents aren't bothered if they get in trouble or not. Definitely how you are brought up. I used to say to my son if you get in trouble your get worse from me.

Barbara Stevens ● 1307d

It's a shame that so many lives have been stressed and damaged by misplaced ideological dogma.  Even many of those MPs whose party promoted this have now accepted that austerity was a mistake or at least went on too long.  It was misrepresented as an economic necessity but in fact deliberately used as a way of reducing the role of the state in British society in accordance with a neo-liberal political agenda.  It has left the country and its ordinary people unprepared and unprotected from the economic, social and health and welfare impacts of the Brexit vote and the pandemic.OWL (Online Watch Link) is a neighbourhood watch organisation which can quickly alert neighbours of problems and help the police to catch perpetators.https://wandsworth.gov.uk/community-safety/owl-online-watch-link/This is a terrible ordeal for the youngsters to have experienced especially while gaining some independence but muggings particularly for mobile phones have happened quite a lot in the past.  Different initiatives have been taken in the such as not making a particular uniform obvious and the police also used of course to be able to visit schools to talk to children about what to do when approached and followed and to be careful to not display valuables.  I remember someone on here saying that their children didn't have smart phones or only had cheap phones.  However, it is reassuring to be able to see with the Find a Friend app where your child is on their way home and they can see where you are when you are on the way to collect.I'm sure others will be able to share their experiences and I hope that this nasty and aggressive group will be caught quickly.   

Philippa Bond ● 1307d

This was a response to Barbara's post of the 23rd suggesting that photos of the boys should be circulated to local schools.

Caroline Whitehead ● 1307d

Very good point Barbara. I hope that the Polce have done this.

Caroline Whitehead ● 1307d

Jonathan, Sue. I don't think your comments are necessarily mutually exclusive. A lot of responsibility does rest with parents (although my mother came from a single parent family as her father died when she was four but even though she came from a poor background she wasn't feral!) but austerity did mean cuts in police and closure of police stations meaning a lack of police visibility that does remove the check on behaviour.Maybe some are thinking back to the 1960s and early 70s when perhaps the divide between rich and poor perhaps wasn't as great as now? And university grants, etc assisted social mobility? Perhaps, also, some of us have put on rose tinted glasses: there was bullying in the 1960s and my cousin has some interesting memories from his council housing estate and seeing the periphery of east end gang land. It might help if some of our leaders set better examples by not having serial families; also, interesting that some try to hide the fact they were members of Oxford's Bullingdon Club - aren't they just posh feral kids?

Michael Ixer ● 1307d

It would be great if things could change as you wish but the reality in the society we live in is that there are too many single or no parent “families” around who cannot or will not cope with mutinous teenagers. They can’t be made to change (unless you have a workable solution which nobody has yet tried) and we can’t put the clock back to 1955.  And they can’t be made to take responsibility when they’re not capable.  Often these problems go back generations - this hasn’t happened overnight. No government has found a way to reverse the trend.  And the kids that fare worst are those who end up in the care system, a terrible indictment of our social services. The only way the rest of us can be protected from the effects of this is to have public services that try to give these kids some sort of structure to their lives in the hope, all too often in vain as I’m sure you would agree, that they can become useful members of society.  Austerity has weakened public services across the board and that is the inescapable reality we have to confront.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1307d

"Feral kids as described in this awful case roaming the streets seemingly with impunity. In my view pressure on our elected representatives is the only way any of this can be addressed."How about some pressure also being put on parents to bring up their kids properly?  Perhaps having two parents in the family unit might be a good idea as well?  Part of parental responsibility is to teach their children what is right and what is wrong and constantly blaming austerity for bad behaviour is a cop out. Many generations of children were raised in poverty and lived in conditions far worse than those of today.  However the vast majority didn't become feral and roam the streets mugging and stabbing other kids.  I'm sick of hearing the austerity excuse for lawlessness.

Sue Hammond ● 1308d

Nick, If you haven't received the picture yet. if you go into Barbara Stevens, facebook, I have dark hair a stripped teeshirt, it's top of my timeline if you go in on timeline.

Barbara Stevens ● 1308d

Nick, if you go to https://nextdoor.co.uk/neighborhood_feed/ and click on Putney Common (you may have to be a registered user, I'm not sure) and see the post flagged Urgent alert from Emily Reed you can access the photos - there are five - and they can (with some difficulty) be downloaded from there.

Richard Carter ● 1308d

Can someone please send me a link or share the photo of this individual?

Nick Gulliford ● 1308d

The cuts to police numbers since 2010 are well documented and are a consequence of a decade of “austerity”. The cuts to the court system, legal aid and probation have been even worse but it is probably the cuts to education funding that have done more damage - badly behaved children are simply excluded and the support services that are supposed to deal with them are threadbare to say the least. The result of all this?  Feral kids as described in this awful case roaming the streets seemingly with impunity. In my view pressure on our elected representatives is the only way any of this can be addressed.

Jonathan Callaway ● 1308d

Perhaps the army can help! Well, according to Boris.What were people thinking of when they cut police numbers and closed stations??Sadly as crime rises it will become even harder to get people out of their cars and onto bikes etc.

Ed Robinson ● 1308d

I suppose this horrifying attack, the machete attack in Norroy Rd and the stabbing in Gwendoline Ave are unrelated but together they produce a frightening, unpleasant picture of the neighbourhood.It is regrettable that we no longer have a police station - I've no ideas where the nearest one is. I wonder how much the police's delay in responding is due to the shortage of officers. Because my home county is Devon I watched Channel 4's recent series Call the Cops" about the Devon & Cornwall Constabulary. It was painfully clear how stretched they are in trying to serve two large counties. They were really trying their best.I just hope the young lads are able to recover their confidence. Not easy, I'm sure.

Elizabeth Balsom ● 1308d

The lady who's son this happened too, has already put this on Fbook. You can see the tall young male holding the young lad. Perhaps it could be put on Putney Forum.

Barbara Stevens ● 1308d

Just a thought if the parents have this camera might be an idea to circulate to local heads of local schools.

Barbara Stevens ● 1308d

There is a new camera fitted by Air Malta facing over Quill Bridge, might also have got something on camera. Seems to be a lot happening by Norroy Rd and Charlwood Rd lately, shame the old Police Station gone. Also flats for the Police used to be there.

Barbara Stevens ● 1308d

Apparently they are around again, cycling on the pavement in the area.

Richard Phipps ● 1308d

Thank you Richard for the post.It is beyond horrific and beyond comprehension the time it took the police to go to their house.I agree that the priorities are completely wrong and am tempted to write to Wandsworth Police to complain about their lackadaisical response.As for the response by one of the boys to the mother, well, attack is the best means of defense comes to mind. Bully behaviour - totally unacceptable.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1308d

A shocking and frightening incident. I also cannot understand why the police response took so long. I hope this young lad will be ok after such a traumatising experience and the culprits are caught.

Lucille Grant ● 1308d

I don't know, but as an uniformed guess, I'd say they were on the lookout to steal his mobile phone.

Richard Carter ● 1308d

This is awful :(Not that there is any justification of course but was there a 'reason' as such? Mugging etc or just totally random?

Matt Palmer ● 1308d