Forum Topic

Traffic changes - can't get to High Street!

The council seems to be introducing traffic restrictions all over the place, without any regard for the consequences.  You can no longer turn right out of either end of Lytton Grove (though there seem to be no cameras so people still do).  So to get from Lytton Grove to the High Street, to shop, I used to go left up Putney Hill, right into Westleigh, right into Genoa, then wriggle my way down to the URR to turn left into the High Street.  Now they've made Genoa no entry!  This means all traffic is forced into Solna, which really isn't wide enough (let alone that Westleigh between Genoa and Solna is only one lane, due to parked cars).  Ridiculous!!!

Lynn Pearcy ● 2042d30 Comments

Oh wait, try left into Portinscale Rd instead.  Phew!  Someone might have had to leave the car at home.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2041d

You're right, so long since I tried to turn into Keswick Rd.  Well, it's game set and match - walk, bike or bus!  How inconvenient is that?

Jonathan Callaway ● 2041d

Dear Lynn, Can you not see that this trip you are making, which includes 'wiggling' through my road, is the exact reason that LTNs are being trialled (emphasis on the word trialled)? Because you wish to use your car to make a journey of about a mile (which can be walked in 20 mins, cycled in 10) I and another 50 to 100 households have to be inconvenienced by the noise and pollution from your car. I love driving; but it benefits everyone, including me, if I avoid it where possible.

Tim Gibbons ● 2041d

I don't think you can turn into Keswick Road from West Hill, you have to go down to the lights and go left into Portinscale Road then turn fight at the T-junction with Keswick Road. Yes, Jonathan, far easier to walk or cycle although not if one had difficulty walking. Blue badge holders need to be considered in these schemes. OK, I don't have one myself but I've had to ferry a couple of people around who had them.

Michael Ixer ● 2041d

Or walk or get a bus??

Jonathan Callaway ● 2041d

What about left on to West Hill then left into Keswick Rd?  Then URR, Oxford Rd then Disraeli?

Jonathan Callaway ● 2041d

A u turn in Westleigh Avenue? If everyone followed your recommendation! You're having a laugh of course.

Lucille Grant ● 2041d

The overall idea isn't misguided. The implementation is far from perfect but you can never expect perfection from the council, and if you threw out every imperfect idea you'd never get anything done. (We're back to the perfect solution fallacy.)Car usage needs to be driven down (pun mildly intended).Through traffic in residential areas is generally a bad idea (note that I don't count delivery drivers, local buses or services as 'through traffic' for the purpose of this discussion).Implementing LTN areas like this by forcing circuitous diversions is certainly one way of doing it. There are other ways but generally they're more expensive (such as H&F's ANPR solution which matches vehicle registrations against a whitelist of those with parking permits, authorised service vehicles, etc and the remainder such as delivery drivers handled by appeal).Through traffic forced back onto the trunk/distributor roads causes a slight increase in traffic on those roads which will, over time, lead to a decrease in overall traffic as some people are pushed beyond their limits of what they deem acceptable and will either avoid the journey completely, or find alternatives that don't contribute to an increase in traffic.Trying to solve a problem by making it worse initially is a completely legitimate tactic. Ask anyone who's been on a proper fitness regime, or someone who's had chemotherapy, even the current response to the SARS-Cov-2 virus (lockdown, social distancing, furlough, etc). There's even a phrase for it: Short term pain, long term gain.I'd recommend reading "Factfulness: Ten Reasons we're wrong about the world - and why things are better than you think" by Hans Rosling.One quote from him:"People often call me an optimist, because I show them the enormous progress they didn't know about. That makes me angry. I'm not an optimist. That makes me sound naive. I'm a very serious “possibilist”. That’s something I made up. It means someone who neither hopes without reason, nor fears without reason, someone who constantly resists the overdramatic worldview. As a possibilist, I see all this progress, and it fills me with conviction and hope that further progress is possible. This is not optimistic. It is having a clear and reasonable idea about how things are. It is having a worldview that is constructive and useful."

John Kettlekey ● 2041d

I bet those apps which have caused a lot of the problems in the first place would tell you!Yes, very many people would like to see the speeds limits enforced.  Hopefully fewer people will also take to their cars unnecessarily.  Making it safer for children to cycle and no longer feeling the necessity to do a school run would help.It is good to see that Councils have increased their courses for cyclists and information on routes, bike marking etc.I particularly like the info and awareness on the danger to cyclists of HGVs.https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/transport/cycling/cycle-training-and-skills/

Philippa Bond ● 2041d

John Kettlekey You are  bending over backwards to support what is  plainly a misguided idea. Trying to solve a problem by making it worse is pure Alice in Wonderland.

Alexander MacLeod ● 2041d

OK, Lytton Grove to the High Street:-a) Lytton Grove, Holmbush, Rusholme, Kersfield, right turn onto Putney Hill (not so nice), Putney High Streetbut personally I'd just do:-b) Lytton Grove, left onto Putney Hill, Right onto Westleigh, U-turn in the nice wide avenue, left onto Putney Hill, Putney High StreetIf you're ending up on Solna Avenue then you're doing it wrong.

John Kettlekey ● 2041d

You can't just block all traffic coming in as you'd also block residents from being able to access the area. You can't discriminate between people requiring access and people wanting to drive straight through an area/LTN with a sign. You can discourage some with a sign, and you can discourage a lot more with road closures and circuitous diversions.Also I don't know why they don't enforce the law regarding speed limits. I wish they would.My guess is that, despite the initial increase in revenue (for the first swathe of people who get caught) it would eventually be sporadic enough that it costs too much to enforce enough to deter the last 10% of speeders. The other main reason (and this is just personal opinion) is that the Government have let it go on too long and would have to fine/criminalise a significant portion of the population, and they're not prepared to do that and so enforcement remains purposely underfunded.As for speeding in the LTN, yes, I know it's not limited to the through traffic. I recognise plenty of frequent speeding offenders as local residents. But the traffic surveys will help get a handle on the severity of the problem.What generally happens is that if the traffic surveys start to show too much speeding in 20 mph limit areas they put in actual speed humps/cushious/etc to deter it (rather than just the fake ones they paint on some of the roads).

John Kettlekey ● 2041d

I know Solna Ave. It's a perfect bottleneck for an LTN scheme. That's probably why the council chose to use it as such.If there was no through traffic in this particular LTN then Solna Avenue (and Granard Avenue at the end which can also be used) would easily cope with the relatively small traffic moving around the area of the LTN.Once the LTN has been around for long enough and enough of the through traffic has been discouraged from using the area, everything should calm down enough and be a lot nicer. It just takes a bit of pain to get to that point.

John Kettlekey ● 2041d

The point seems to be to reduce through traffic. I notice H+F have got cameras up and unless you have a permit on your car then you can expect a fine for driving through a resident only area.

Matt Palmer ● 2041d

I feel sure that the point of these "traffic restrictions" is to try and reduce the number of sub 1 mile private car journeys and hence help reduce both the traffic and polution. Driving into Putney from anywhere less than a mile away should in my opinion be discouraged in favour of active travel. Sure some folks arent able to walk/cycle (e-bike?!) but if those than can choose not to drive wouldnt it be better for all other residents?

Tim Lorimer ● 2041d

Great:  thank you for reporting this!

Lynn Pearcy ● 2041d

Gabrielle, the 20mph on LRR is at the Wandsworth/Richmond  boundary.Richmond have a 20mph limit on all the roads they control now. I think Wandsworth is going to follow soon.I don't mind the 20mph limit it just that I seem to be the only keeping to it! And of course no enforcement which means I actually become a hazard by doing 20mphv with vechiles overtaking at 35mph plus or tail-gating.

Ed Robinson ● 2041d

John Kettlekey: Have you taken a look at Solna Avenue? It is half the width of surrounding streets, and one side is usually taken up by stationary vehicles (controlled parking for which the Council gains revenue). It was a difficult street to negotiate even before the changes. Surely it is weird to suggest that the best way to convince people that there is a problem is to make the problem worse. The thinking behind such decisions is half-baked.

Alexander MacLeod ● 2041d

I have to admit do those signs for Dryburgh even say the times they operate? It's so confusing having to look for a lit up sign.In terms of speeding 20mph on that road and also around back roads of Putney is fine but the 20mph after the cemetery entrance on LRR (to barnes) is just stupid.

Gabrielle OMahony ● 2041d

Richard,The Dryburgh Road no entry is interesting, not only for the fact there are no exceptions i.e. except cycles. So even cyclists are prohibited from using it ( I do cycle and stick to the highway code before people laugh too much). But again the signage is poor.The led no entry sign just looks bizarre and the no left turn is too far away. I have wondered if the led sign is even legal.But the biggest issue with Dryburgh Road is speeding. I see the same cars speed. I'm just amazed there aren't more accidents.Coming back to the LTN. Many have needed law enforcement. The question is if law enforcement was applied before would some of the extremely illogical measures imposed by the WBC LTN be needed?

Ed Robinson ● 2041d

"Why wouldn't [WBC] just enforce the law regarding speed limits?"A good question! I think it's because they just aren't prepared to spend the money on proper enforcement. That's a policy that results in, for example, the change on the Dryburgh Road/LRR barrier: there used to be a physical barrier that was closed by a real person at 7 am and opened again at 10. By changing to a virtual barrier with (maybe?) operating cameras, they saved a small amount but completely lost its effectiveness, all for a pitiful saving at a much wider cost of a no longer effective barrier.

Richard Carter ● 2042d

John but why wouldn't WBC just block the traffic coming in?Why wouldn't they just enforce the law regarding speed limits?And the most important point - speeding is not limited to through traffic - so even after through traffic is illimited you still have speeding!

Ed Robinson ● 2042d

I believe that's the entire point of these LTNs. (And, no, you won't find this as a big stated aim of the LTNs in anything that the council will print.)Force the traffic down the narrowest of roads to ram home the fact that these areas aren't for through traffic.Solna Avenue should easily handle the traffic of local residents going to/from the area. If there's a problem with too much traffic on Solna Avenue then it must mean that there's too much through traffic.Same with Pleasance Road in the Dover House Estate.Circuitous workarounds for the closures...Do people get it yet?Give it a while see how it affects the traffic in the area in the longer term, you'll (hopefully) see a big change and (hopefully) for the better.

John Kettlekey ● 2042d

Solna Avenue is far too narrow to be a thoroughfare to anywhere. The Council must rethink this. Have they ever been to look?

Alexander MacLeod ● 2042d

The URR opposite the Leisure Centre is also gas I believe.I wonder if it is shale gas because they keep digging up that crossing every few month!Having said that for years it has always smelt of gas near there.

Ed Robinson ● 2042d

West Putney was busier today thanks to the schools going back and roadworks on the URR - temporary traffic lights and queues.  Let's see what it looks like in a week or so.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2042d

Scrub that. Just been round that way on an errand. Gasworks finished, and Portinscale and Keswick Roads open to traffic from West Hill to URR.

Michael Ixer ● 2042d

Possibly not at the moment. Portinscale road was (is?) closed for gas main renewal.

Michael Ixer ● 2042d

Could you not go out the other end near to East Putney Waitrose and get to the high street that way?Have to say it’s day 2 and there a constant increase in cars going along Westleigh Avenue

Emma Blackwell ● 2042d

Thing is Lynn that aside from our obvious problems these restrictions are fast making Putney a no-go area for would-be visitors to the area...that includes tradesmen, cabbies, the likes of Ocado, Deliveroo/others...the list goes on.Would be nice if the WBC members who decided these closures could respond on this forum and give some sort of explanation/rationale. Pigs might fly!

Simon Knight ● 2042d