Forum Topic

Dianne Abbott

As people on this forum know I am not exactly Dianne Abbott's number 1 fan.  Notwithstanding this fact, if any black person should have a statue dedicated to them, it should be her.  She was the first black MP and as such should be remembered and respected for that.  It was a massive achievement,added to which, she overcame the hurdle of being a woman. Although I personally have little empathy with her views, she has remained an MP for many decades.The activist who was briefly on the plinth in Bristol will be forgotten in a very short time.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2305d17 Comments

That's an interesting idea and I wouldn't disagree. However, although she was the first black woman MP and is still serving, Bernie Grant and Paul Boateng were elected at the same time as she was in 1987. Incidentally, it also appears some Indian men were elected as MPs in the 19th century and early 20th century. However, I don't think that detracts from Abbott's achievement as the first black woman MP.https://www.parliament.uk/about/art-in-parliament/online-exhibitions/parliamentarians/pioneers/page-1/

Michael Ixer ● 2305d

Is there a statue to Nancy Astor? Wasn't she the first female MP? I'd rather people saw beyond the skin colour and just recognised the achievement of Dianne Abbot as I think a daughter of an immigrant to this country. I'm afraid I find her irritating and her loyalty to Jeremy Corbyn rather unsettling.

Katrina Black ● 2305d

Actually, to be totally accurate, Constance Markiewicz was the first woman elected to Parliament (in 1918) but because Sinn Fein had a policy (they still do) of not taking their seats at Westminster, she wasn't technically the first woman MP. I love her fashion advice:"Dress suitably in short skirts and strong boots, leave your jewels in the bank and buy a revolver."And the first Asian MP was David Ochterlony Dyce Sombre, of mixed Indian and European descent, elected in 1841. He was followed by Dadabhai Naoroji, in 1892,. He was followed by Mancherjee Bhownaggree in 1895 and Shapurji Saklatvala in 1922:https://www.parliament.uk/about/art-in-parliament/online-exhibitions/parliamentarians/pioneers/page-1/

Richard Carter ● 2305d

I like the idea of the little known activist - a bit like the unknown soldier.Surely it's a matter for the people of Bristol?The first black female MP should be celebrated for posterity somehow. along with the first minority ethnic MP, the first black peer, the first female black peer, the first gay MP etc etc. So many causes - empty those plinths and make ready.

Michael Winstanley ● 2305d

Dear God, have a statue because she's black.  Do you really understand what you're saying??Love her or hate her, she's been around for donkeys... and I have never thought anything, or even noticed or thought about her colour

Bunny Payne ● 2305d

Good morning Bunny.  I lived in Hackney for many years  from the late 50's for the next 40 years. In those days it was very very mixed nationalities.There was little racial problems, until the 80's.Being white I was almost a minority and my children most certainly were when at school. However, life was pretty laid back and with different cultures weddings great fun.  Most people got on very well together, it being personal not cultural when they didn't. It wasn't really until I moved to Essex in 1999 that I 'learned ' to be colour conscious.  The fact that Dianne Abbott was black was incidental.  She was just a very obnoxious person with no manners at all.The reason I suggested her for the plinth was she should be the role model for black people as regards achievement..IMO most groups need someone to look to, be it Peter Tatchell, Baden-Powell or Tommy Robinson.  Perhaps statues in future should not be designated to people, but then where does that leave churches?

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2304d

'She was just a very obnoxious person' She still is and I'm sure there are plenty of other  more worthy Black people who warrant a statue.

Lucille Grant ● 2304d

I'm sure you are right Lucille.  Mary Seacole immediately springs to mind. Many wards etc named after her.  I think really that we were mainly talking British (? ) people though.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2304d

Surely, Mary Seacole was British because, as with those who moved to the UK on the Windrush, she was born in Jamaica when it was a British colony?

Michael Ixer ● 2304d

Mary Seacole has a statue in grounds of St Thomas' hospital

Andy Pike ● 2304d

Not disputing the fact at all that she was British but as far as this thread is concerned she was not of UK citizenship.  (am quite happy to be corrected on that ), although I'm not so sure Florence Nightingale supporters would be

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2304d

Prior to 1948, every British subject was a citizen of the British Empire. Mary Seacole was as much a citizen as anyone else. Had she been alive in the middle of the 20th century, she would have been a British subject (ie a UK citizen) until Jamaica became independent, at which point she would have become a Jamaican citizen.Had she chosen to move to mainland Britain before Jamaican independence,she would have remained a UK citizen/British subject, regardless of her geographical origin.I know there are many people who want to classify such people as somehow less than British, but sorry, it ain't so.

Michael Winstanley ● 2304d

You're right, Michael.  Someone needs to remind the Home Office though.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2304d

Thanks, Michael W. That's what I meant to imply in my post - she was British and, as you clarified, there was no variation in the that irrespective of where one was born in the British Empire. Jonathan, it's not just the Home Office; I think there's a few people in Parliament who show some ignorance on the subject!

Michael Ixer ● 2304d

There is still a huge groundswell of opinion, partly through ignorance but partly theough prejudice that the coloured inhabitants of these isles are somehow less British than the white ones.I personally cannot trace my ancestory back before the Roman conquest - the likelihood is that some of my ancestors came here from mainland Europe in the '00's (ie before 1000 AD). Some of them too could have come from western Europe in the 1900's. Who would know? This would give me less claim to this fictitious "ancestral Britishness" than Mary Seacole. But I'm white of course.This is after all a country where if you do something wrong when you're a child and your parents came from Bangladesh, the Home Secretary tries to make you a Bangladeshi, despite you having been born and brought up in Britain, having a British passport, authenticated British citizenship and never having set foot in Bangladesh

Michael Winstanley ● 2304d

Perhaps I should be classified as French on the grounds that the Oxford Dictionary of Family Names records that the first Callaways came over from Normandy with William the Conqueror.  Apparently there’s a village in Normandy called Cailloueux (a pebbly place).As for that Mark Francois ....

Jonathan Callaway ● 2304d

Good morning Michael  That you for enlightening me and improving my knowledge. Have a poster delivered with the Guardian, that doesn't even mention her mother was born a Jamaican.  I actually love history, or at least the people, not necessarily the events.  Just wish I'd been taught in school.  Did you know that in 2004 she was top of the list for most important of Black People?

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2304d