Forum Topic

justin welby

am having problems with his latest announcement.Am not terribly intellectual but even I would not credit a Jewish family having a white child..  quite miraculous really.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2113d34 Comments

Sue: Bishops Justin Welby and John Sentanu did not just make up the current guidance on sexual matters. It has been the agreed policy of the C of E for ever. As with the Catholic Church the C of E is engaged in modernisation. Enabling women to become Priests and then Bishops took years, in the face of strong opposition from some sections of the Church. If policy on sexual matters is to be modified it, too, will take much discussion and is bound to attract opposition. The Living in Love and Faith project was intended as a start - alas now postponed by coronavirus.

Caroline Whitehead ● 2111d

@Sue. I think we agree on that. My problem with most religions is that they're trying to apply axioms set centuries or millennia ago which (in my perception) we're intended to control societies of those times. Some of those things may still be applicable - for example, as a concept marriage may help form a basis of stable societies given it's ubiquitousness across different religions but the details need to be adjusted for modern knowledge and understanding; there are aspects of Eastern religions - meditation and yoga - which can be transitioned to modern living - but many (most?) religions are not flexible enough to accept challenges to or modifications their basic axioms. To be honest, I'm not sure it's my business to criticise individual religions, that's up to the people who follow them, unless that religion infringes on me personally directly or indirectly, or contravenes the secular laws of the majority unless specific exemptions have been agreed for that religion.

Michael Ixer ● 2111d

Caroline, do we agree that Welby and Sentamu made those comments?  They are both high ranking representatives of the CoE and as such they were apologising about their own flawed guidance.  It makes me wonder why they made those comments in the first place.

Sue Hammond ● 2111d

Again from your Independent article: "The archbishops of York and Canterbury have apologised for a Church of England statement which said sex was just for married heterosexuals.Justin Welby and John Sentamu said they acknowledged “the division and hurt” caused by their controversial guidance last week, which stated that civil partnerships should be no more than “sexually abstinent friendships.”So it wasn't the Church apologising for Justin Welby, but Justin Welby apologising for the 'division and hurt' caused by the current guidance.I don't 'know' Justin Welby any better than anyone else, I am not a member of the Church of England and I certainly don't go along with their current guidance. But I do think that if you are going to criticise or insult someone you should get your facts right.Let's just agree to disagree - it won't be the first time!

Caroline Whitehead ● 2111d

The essence of what Welby said was wrong and that is why the CoE apologised. Tbh I think he enjoys being controversial but we can disagree about him, and that's fine. I think you 'know' him much better than me. I am Catholic and there are aspects of my religion that I also criticise, although the present Pope is trying to modernise it.

Sue Hammond ● 2111d

@MichaelPerhaps one of the reasons why the young are not embracing religion could be because of Welby's rhetoric. He isn't the only narrow-minded elevated member of the clergy who is so out of touch with modern society and its values, as the Indi article shows.

Sue Hammond ● 2111d

Read the Independent article more closely Sue. It contains the current guidance for Church members:“For Christians, marriage, that is the lifelong union between a man and a woman, contracted with the making of vows, remains the proper context for sexual activity.”Justin Welby was apologising for the disquiet in many parts of Church membership that this guidance causes and was saying that the forthcoming "Living in Love and Faith" project is designed to illuminate the whole subject. In no way was he apologising for his personal views.The completed project was to be discussed at the Lambeth Conference this July, but for obvious reasons, everything has had to be postponed.Sorry Sue but I think that your remarks about Justin Welby are completely unjustified.

Caroline Whitehead ● 2111d

We do seem to be losing our religion. Some of the statements on sex, relationships, iconography, etc from Welby et al are probably considered irrelevant to many, particularly the younger generations. I like to keep an open mind about things but when someone talks about speaking in tongues as something that happens perfectly naturally I do struggle - but perhaps that's why I'm not an archbishop (ref: Welby, Wikipedia) - not that I have any desire to be one! https://theconversation.com/how-better-education-has-built-a-more-secular-britain-83656 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Welby

Michael Ixer ● 2111d

Hi Caroline.  Perhaps the Independent got it wrong too?Church of England apologises for saying sex is just for married heterosexuals | The Independenthttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/church-of-england-sex-lgbt-gay-marriage-justin-welby-apology-a9310811.html

Sue Hammond ● 2111d

I am not sure that you have got this right Sue. My understanding is that official policy within the C of E is that only sex within marriage is allowed. Civil Partnerships between male and female homosexuals is recognised, although partners should abstain from sex. Of course many members of the C of E, including Clergy, do not agree with this and have said so vociferously. However the Church is a worldwide organisation and the African Bishops have considerable voting power.Justin Welby, whatever he may believe personally, is bound to uphold the wider Church policies agreed in Synod.

Caroline Whitehead ● 2111d

@AMc 17.31I repeat, Welby is a controversial old fool.  In January the Church of England had to apologise for Welby's comments when he said sex is just for married heterosexuals.  He then dug himself a bigger hole by stating that civil partnerships should be no more than sexually abstinent friendships. Welby is not only controversial and foolish, but homophobic too. Do your research before you accuse me of making gratuitous insults.  Understand the words you use.

Sue Hammond ● 2112d

Yes my favourite but controversial in his day and possibly today still??I do like a little controviality, if nothing else it keeps us on our toes.

Ed Robinson ● 2112d

If he made us all. he made us the way he wanted. Who are we too argue ?

Barbara Stevens ● 2112d

Well said Barabara: "Forgiveness, love, and peace."...and the a ability to turn water into wine, be it red or white!

Ed Robinson ● 2112d

That's your problem. You haven't. Your bad temper is really beginning to show. I suggest you take a deep breath, turn off LBC and try to relax.

Alexander MacLeod ● 2112d

Grow up.

Sue Hammond ● 2112d

"Welby is a controversial old fool who loves to get his mug in the papers." Gratuitous insults the SH currency - yet again.

Alexander MacLeod ● 2112d

Jesus (God incarnate) can be any colour you want him to be. As Dave Allen, (favourite comedian ever) used to say 'May your God go with you'.  Welby is a controversial old fool who loves to get his mug in the papers.

Sue Hammond ● 2112d

Does it really matter what colour or look he is represented by?  Surely his messages are universal?  Forgiveness, love, and peace.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2112d

Hmmm

Maxine Campbell ● 2113d

He wasn't white. He was a Middle Eastern Jew Same skin colour as current Libyan and Syrian refugees are today is my guess.

Lucille Grant ● 2113d

Perhaps he was crucified because he was white?

Bunny Payne ● 2113d

God I remember that lol

Maxine Campbell ● 2113d

I think we can all agree he didn't look like this:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Attempted_restoration_of_Ecce_Homo.jpg

Ed Robinson ● 2113d

That looks more realistic, Maxine.

Michael Ixer ● 2113d

Oh can I play?  I think you'll find he had "feet of bronze and hair of wool.  Can't add pic from my iPad.  https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/547820742151695390/

Maxine Campbell ● 2113d

Reminds me of the time I went to see a Polish friend who had what I thought was a photo of a nice young man looking rather like Sean's picture. I asked if it was her husband and she replied "No, it is Jesu Christo".

Caroline Whitehead ● 2113d

Ah, so this is what's under discussion? Missed it, I suppose he has a point but I guess as an atheist it's not really my business? Howeve, what he's talking about is the sort of thing that puts me of religions; it's mainly manufactured or directed by people in authority for their own ends and influences.https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/26/church-of-england-justin-welby-white-jesus-black-lives-matter

Michael Ixer ● 2113d

I think you'll find he was blond and had blue-eyes 🤣

Sean Hodges ● 2113d

Goodness me.  You do misinterpretate what I said.  BC the odds of normal Jewish families, especially in remote places such as Galilee, would I imagine, have been quite remote.I did NOT say it was impossible but quite unlikely.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2113d

Impossible for Jewish people to have a white child? Is that your position? Just to clarify.

Freddie Francis ● 2113d

Explain please .  What roll exactly am I on?  Don't understand what you mean

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2113d

LOL

Lucille Grant ● 2113d

You are really on a roll aren't you Barbara.

Maxine Campbell ● 2113d