Forum Topic

brixton

a first rate example of one of BAME list of wants  Dissolution  of police

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2112d27 Comments

Michael I agree.  In the early 70s as a white hippy girl, I was picked on the police several times and in a very rude and sexist way.Since those dark days a lot of our society has changed, for the good.  I don't really understand what's happened since, because in those days interracial friendships were accepted as perfectly normal.  What happened?  I think we take too much from the US... music and culture, it doesn't really apply here.

Bunny Payne ● 2111d

Yes Adam. There are choices. We chose right but are still the wrong colour. My PE teacher and careers advisor many years ago tried to make my choices by stereotypically telling me I should work for the NHS or because, as she told all the kids in my PE lesson, "I have high calves as I'm coloured so I can run fast". My mother is a qualified nurse...couldn't get a job here and was told she could only clean wards. She too faced what many nurses now still  do - racial abuse from patients. They were not her choices either. I'm not disputing that some people may use race, but many young boys in school struggle because the teachers are overstretched and are unable to take the time to understand them. I am here to offer perspective.

Maxine Campbell ● 2111d

I think there is a real danger now of a long hot summer of civil unrest and I greatly fear the police will struggle to cope. One of the more shocking images of the 2011 London riots was the police standing off for fear of being overwhelmed. The next day reinforcements were brought in from other big cities leaving those cities vulnerable to the same unrest. Police strength in 2010 was about 20,000 higher than it is now - March 2019 total 123,000 - see https://fullfact.org/crime/police-numbers/  We have already seen front line police more or less disappear from our streets.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2111d

Thank you for posting  Maxine. Some people just don't get it, no matter how many times you repeat.

Lucille Grant ● 2111d

Of course everyone should take responsibility for their actions and make better choices, but the point is that many non-white people are given fewer choices.  Lazy assumptions are made about individuals based purely on the colour of their skin - such as the examples Maxine has given.  That is racism, pure and simple, and it’s wrong.

Craig Fordham ● 2111d

the people of Brixton blamed outsiders for the trouble on last nights news, and were appalled at ths attacks on the police.

Andy Pike ● 2111d

so you infer racism by mentioning brixton and NH but not the peaceful dispersal of people partying on streatham common? with regard to Liverpool, I suspect it was a numbers issue, Liverpool many 1000's Brixton 150-200

Adam Tripp ● 2111d

Have you ever been to Notting Hill Simon?

Andy Pike ● 2111d

Adam, I suspect looking at Maxine's very eloquent post, if some people and their friends are picked on unfairly to be stopped and searched then some build up a resentment of that treatment. That may drive some away from mainstream society? Interestingly, in the late 60-earlyn70s a lot of young men with long hair (irrespective of colour) were often hassled by the police. Many of these were university nstudents who went onto professional positions but the result was probably a lifetime distrust of the police which may explain some of today's policing problems. It may be a cliché but the Dixon of Dock Green policing model rather than the Sweeney isn't so bad.

Michael Ixer ● 2111d

While I wouldn't want to begrudge Liverpool fans their moment of enjoyment I wonder why it's alright for 'thousands to celebrate' (quote from the BBC) - including fireworks - without the police trying to disperse them but those trying to enjoy themselves in Brixton or Notting Hill Gate can't. Personally I'm not happy with either because we're just on the cusp of controlling Covid and breaking the distancing rules is plainly antisocial as well as illegal, but the inconsistency seems both confusing and discriminatory to me.

Michael Ixer ● 2111d

too many people blame their problems on everyone and everything else except their own choices, every child in the UK is offered a free education until 18, if they choose not to embrace an opportunity that half the world would kill for, that's not society's fault. We make choices every day, most minor, some not, if you choose to carry a knife, if you choose to throw rocks at police, if you choose to deal drugs or take drugs, dont blame society, dont blame racism, just make better choices.

Adam Tripp ● 2111d

Thank you Maxine for eloquently putting into words. Classic example of racism here. This party has nothing to do with race or BLM movement yet for some reason is the focus of this thread. Wonder if we will get a seperate thread for the Notting Hill party last night where officers got injured. Or maybe that area is too white?

Simon Sharp ● 2111d

Thank you, Maxine, for putting some well-needed perspective into this thread.

Catherine Schade ● 2111d

Oh FFS I knew that I'd find the same crap here. Having a street party was feckless, the violence was totally wrong but don't use that as an excuse to air and justify your prejudice. As for knife crime and stop and search. Tell me, my husband has never carried a weapon, or any other member of my family, three architects, one carpenter, two builders, one engineer, one graphic designer and a games programmer. ALL of these have been stopped and searched for no reason other than the fact that they are black men walking and minding their own business. My husband, on his way home from his architectural practice was picked from the train and thrown in a cell for "allegedly" stealing a purse. I will point out they had no victim or witnesses. The judge threw the case out adminishing the police for wasting time. That may not be physical brutality but the mental scarring is there. You can then understand why I'm pretty pissed off right now when you equate violence with black.  They were total thugs, and I in no way condone what happened yesterday against the police but it was incidental that they were black.I read something interesting from a US article. When white men feel aggrieved about an issue they strut up to Washington with their guns as they have the right to bear arms and no one lifts an eyelid. If a group of black marchers did the same all he'll would break loose even though they have the very same right.

Maxine Campbell ● 2112d

"Perhaps if more black children concentrated on their education and strove to achieve their ambitions, maybe capitalism would be less white dominated?"If you look at the stats black girls are doing about the same as white girls. All girls are doing better than boys with only Chinese boys being the exception, but again Chinese girls outperform the Chinese boys.Working class boys, irrespective of ethnicity I believe are the biggest underachievers.https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest#by-ethnicity-and-gender

Ed Robinson ● 2112d

Apparently there are systems in between capitalism and communism.....

Matt Palmer ● 2112d

There's a new one every day Barbara ...

Sue Hammond ● 2112d

Sorry Sue. Getting myself all mixed up with the acronyms.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2112d

@Michael"but at the moment there's, quite rightly, a common focus on police brutality and racism."Police brutality is not common in the U.K. in fact it is highly rare.  Whenever the police use stop and search against a black person, an accustom of racism is sure to follow. Why do they bother trying to keep knives off the street when these searches are seen as very contentious? Because the majority of stabbings are black on black crimes that's why, and the police are trying to save black lives."There's also an bonus on capitalism to be less white dominated"Perhaps if more black children concentrated on their education and strove to achieve their ambitions, maybe capitalism would be less white dominated?  Forever playing the victim does not help anybody.

Sue Hammond ● 2112d

@michael. The website promotes defunding the police and diverting funds to 'community projects'. There's no direct statements about anything more. But... in this video one of their officials does go as far as promoting the abolishion of the police. Complete cobbler's of course and a simple pipe dream but it's worth people being aware. No more worrying than some of the far left's fantasy policies though in my opinion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asZE7ZmE32k

Freddie Francis ● 2112d

@Ed. Good point@Sue. There already seem to be some activists the main BLM movement dissociates themselves from. I could see anything about dismantling capitalism here but need to hop onto a conference call now so will look later:https://www.blacklivesmatter.uk/about-us.html

Michael Ixer ● 2112d

There has been quite a lot of defunding of the police in England and Wales since 2010.https://fullfact.org/crime/police-numbers/

Ed Robinson ● 2112d

Not sure they've thought all of that through. Obviously good they're supporting world vegan day and it seems ok to support Ryanair and Amazon staff, and they're correct that something should be done about overcrowded and unsafe prisons. I agree that they need to be more specific about solutions. Communism imploded in the late 80s; I'm wondering if the Covid crises will severely damage parts of capitalism that were ill prepared for such an event and built on sand? Perhaps we'll end up with a more socially aware version of a highly regulated capitalism, particularly if the Chinese authoritarian managed economy fareds better than the free market US one does?But, back  to BLM: such movements generally have a broad spectrum of supporters (didn't the 1970s women's movement?) - often such groups splinter but at the moment there's, quite rightly, a common focus on the reality of police brutality and racism. There's also an bonus on capitalism to be less white dominated if it wishes to counter any aims of dismantling it. 

Michael Ixer ● 2112d

You won't believe it because it's a DM article. But here goes:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8441405/The-avowed-aims-British-arm-Black-Lives-Matter.html

Sue Hammond ● 2112d

I've not seen those as aims of the mainstream BLM movement? My understanding is that the defunding in the US is to change the police culture (to reduce the military style of policing and lack of accountability) and transfer some funds to social projects. But if you have a reference I'm willing to be corrected.  Most US people I've met, black or white, are in favour of capitalism although some might prefer a socialist bias - but not communism!

Michael Ixer ● 2112d

The BLM movement also want to destroy capitalism.  Do these half-wits want communism instead?  Do they actually think anything through before they start rioting and vandalising?

Sue Hammond ● 2112d

I think you'll find that dissolution of the police is one of the noble aims of BLM Barbara. Not all BAME people share that view.

Sue Hammond ● 2112d