Forum Topic

Should the 2 metre rule be relaxed?

There are suggestions that the government are planning to relax the rule to 1.5 or even 1 metre. I'm not sure that this is wise. Too many people already disobey the rule so reducing it, whilst seemingly attractive, runs the risk of people abandoning social distancing altogether.  I think that could be a serious problem, with the danger of a second peak on Covid-19. What do others think?

Richard Carter ● 2123d26 Comments

Meanwhile here in the UK we do not know how many people we are testing.https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public

Ed Robinson ● 2109d

The US has a real problem. Which probably means the international economy does. US business (probably many Republican voters) won't be pleased if their execs can't go to Europe ... but is it any wonder when the POTUS say "if we didn't do so many tests we'd have fewer cases". I guess Trump never got good marks in sciences ...The US Facebook memes are having fun ...The picture of an obviously pregnant young lady saying "if only I hadn't taken that pregnancy test ...."Trump saying "I haven't gained any weight since I stopped using the scales"More seriously: if we didn't check so many documents so often we'd have fewer illegal immigrants! 

Michael Ixer ● 2109d

Watermans Arms was packed yesterday, but at least they had supplied large sacks attached to the railings by the river for rubbish. Also the White Hart Pub had put metal railings around their seating on the towpath couldn't really see the point to that as customers of the Waterman's Arms didn't seem to be social distancing. Also a small gazebo was erected on the common by the Spencer Arms and don't know if I was imagining it but a young man looked like he walked out of a tardis on the pavement , looked like a toilet.

Barbara Stevens ● 2109d

Apps and humour aside.We need to be clear if the kids attending school during lockdown were being educated or was it just child care!

Ed Robinson ● 2110d

I can just imagine that conversation. Johnson: "Hey, Hancock, you told me not to worry about our duff app. You said no one had got a working app, and anyway it was all Apple's fault. Made a right d!ck of myself in the Commons just now. Told Starmer - tell me one country who has a working app? He said, calmly, in that annoying barrister 'got you now' manner - what about Germany? And they all cheered him! They didn't care about the bloody schools any more. So, get hold of Herman or whatever that German ambassador is called. Tell him we want that app now in return for all that annoying privacy stuff May let them slip into that GDPR nonsense!" (Apologies to my German friends and colleagues; and Sir Kier.)

Michael Ixer ● 2110d

Looks like we are going to get a tracing  app possibly sooner, according to the Sun. It popped up on my Google search - honest.Anyway nothing wrong with collaborating with other countries, that's what we should have done sooner.I'm still sceptical about apps with no geolocation data as I am about arbitrary distance rules.What I would have liked to have seen is more publications on the transmission in various indoor outdoor scenarios.https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11967727/britains-coronavirus-app-germany-help/

Ed Robinson ● 2110d

As a possible indicator of how things could go here if social distancing isn't observed more carefully, this (from the Johns Hopkins Worldometer site) shows the effect of recent relaxations of the lockdown in the US: a surge of new cases. 

Richard Carter ● 2110d

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2020-06-13/where-is-matt-hancocks-contact-tracing-appThe test, test, test mantra seems a long way off currently.  Tech enthusiasts should read this report with care.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2122d

That’s exactly what people are doing - and interpreting the two metre rule quite flexibly. We drove up to Tottenham today to meet our daughter and family for a park picnic. Roads v busy and the park packed, but people actually distancing quite well. There was a small Black Lives Matter demo and they kept themselves well spread out too.  Great family atmosphere.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2123d

I hated the whole of my horrible Victorian school experience.  So much better now where kids engage and teachers support, guide and encourage.

Bunny Payne ● 2123d

Richard, I haven't read through the thread yet, but I do disagree with relaxing the rules.  It seems to have got to a point where so many of the public feel these are restrictions imposed by the Govt, as if they are the schoolteachers and we are the pupils.  We need to take responsibility for ourselves and this is only being done for our safety.I will not be getting closer to anyone if I can help it and I wish others felt the same.  Keep safe everyone!!

Bunny Payne ● 2123d

Barnes riverside was packed today by the Watermans Arms also the fish and chips shop was open. Spencer Arms and the common packed. Putney Bridge Rd park packed.

Barbara Stevens ● 2123d

I'm far more concerned that the illegal raves in Manchester ended in stabbings, one potentially fatal, and a rape.

Frances Clarke ● 2123d

It's not at all clear cut: there's no simple answer. This from the Independent is fairly typical:"Have the countries with two-metre rules seen lower infection rates?It doesn’t look like it: factors such as earlier lockdown and comprehensive track and trace programmes seem to have played a much bigger part in determining a country’s infection rate."https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/social-distancing-how-far-two-metres-one-reduce-coronavirus-a9561306.html

Richard Carter ● 2123d

I think opinions are divided over this Peter. The 'old' method of pupils sitting at their own desks in rows and facing front at the teacher and the blackboard (obviously now it would be a whiteboard) helped to focus the pupils on what the teacher was saying. The teachers could also see who was paying attention and watch the children's facial expressions, which is often a good indication of whether they are 'getting it' or not.  Desks in rows can be spaced properly to make the best use of the classroom size and would now make social distancing easier to maintain.

Sue Hammond ● 2123d

Yes, the track and trace aspect is important, and I do worry about the system the UK has adopted, since it relies not on personal tracking but calls from a (poorly-trained) call centre. Not exactly "world-beating," is it?

Richard Carter ● 2123d

Other countries has test, trace & isolate.It really depends upon the extent of the virus in the community and tracking down those possible asymptomatic spreaders.It's like getting hit by a ball - more chance if the thrower is nearer. But if everyone around you is throwing them at you you probably get hit sooner or later.

Ed Robinson ● 2123d

I know that there is (or may be) a marginal difference between two metres and one, but my concern is not so much that but a fear that people will interpret the loosening of restrictions as an abolition of them, especially with all the stuff in the papers along the lines of "let's go shopping again." And it wasn't encouraging that there were two illegal raves in Manchester at the weekend, one with 2,000 attending and the other with 4,000. What could the police have done about that? They're in an impossible position, and at the other extreme they wouldn't even be able to stop me from going to the Woking Pizza Express for an eye test, if that's what I wanted...

Richard Carter ● 2123d

Many surveys and experience has shown that children/students learn more and better when they're working in pairs or groups, where they can discuss what they're doing and help each other, while the teacher can the 'work the room' and support each pupil as they need it. I remember a teacher who, for the first time, had just tried group working rather than 'teaching from the front', remarking that "they were learning without me always talking at them!" and another who remarked on how noisy it was because they were all talking, "but they were all talking about the maths!", thus undermining the traditional teachers' cry of "Stop talking and get on with your work!"  It would be a huge set back if virus guidelines meant that schools had to revert to the teaching methods of the past.

Peter Evans ● 2123d

Sir Patrick Vallance has repeatedly said the metres is not a rule but a recommendation and that the scientific case for 2 against 1 is marginal.Additionally we keep be told how good other Eurooean countries are at relaxing measures and many are 1 or 1.5 metres so I think it's a choice that should be made to change. Not risk free but nothing is and maybe make it a metre but face coverings have to be worn indoors (shops etc) . Again no major scientific basis but maybe one of confidence

Andy Pike ● 2123d

I don't think the 2 metre rule was ever properly observed anyway unless it was enforced by organised queuing e.g. to get into a supermarket.  Time to officially change the rules and start getting back to normal and to get the economy moving again. Schools should revert to the didactic method of teaching in classrooms, why that was replaced by having children sitting in small groups I'll never understand.  Kids get distracted and their attention wanders unless they are visually engaged with their teacher all the time.

Sue Hammond ● 2123d

Here's the worry: ministers may overrule the scientific/public health experts solely because they want to get the economy going again: The government could overrule its scientific and medical advisers and relax the two-metre coronavirus social distancing rule, the chancellor has said. Asked on Sunday whether the chief scientist and chief medical officer would have to agree with a relaxation of the policy, Rishi Sunak said ministers were ultimately "elected to make decisions" and suggested they were not bound by the views of experts. Boris Johnson this weekend commissioned a review into the policy, which has been increasingly criticised by Conservative MPs like Iain Duncan Smith and Damian Green, who say an abundance of caution is hurting businesses. Business lobby groups have also called for the rule to be relaxed. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-two-metre-2-m-rule-distancing-rishi-sunak-a9565131.html There's clearly a tension between the concerns for people's health and those for the economy, but this seems to me to be a risk too far.

Richard Carter ● 2123d

It seems we're in danger of reverting to Johnson's original 'take it on the chin' theory, until he belatedly realised the scale of deaths that approach would entail. If the infection and death figures were now demonstrably better and we could believe that the world out there is genuinely safer, we might be prepared to give one metre a go, which is pretty well back to normal practice. But their daily dribble of ease-up initiatives, each based on conflicting factors we know not what, has now become confusing and chaotic, so increasingly 'keep the tills ringing 'cos we all die of something!' will prevail.

Peter Evans ● 2123d

It is suggested that the risk difference between 2 and 1 metre makes it highly likely that it will be reduced to 1 metre soon. Personally I think we have to move on at some point and take a risk ? Maybe yes to get things moving again. No doubt the hindsight professors will be sitting waiting for it to go wrong, whilst critisizing inaction. If you sit on the fence you cant be wrong

Andy Pike ● 2123d

Two metre rule is as good as gone, with dithery government statements hinting at it, businesses lobbying for it, and some papers already 'welcoming' it.  Obviously two metres is safer than one, and schools have been desperately trying to rearrange things to meet that, but pressure from pubs and airlines will probably see it changed. This doesn't bode well for the idea that 'things will be different/better' after the crisis, as the same 'economic' arguments will be used for maintaining low pay and poor working conditions, removing other 'red tape regulations' and resisting 'crippling Union demands'.

Peter Evans ● 2123d

I am unsure about reducing the rule, at least for now.  However, I suppose this has to do with shops opening on Monday and hopefully, in July so will restaurants, bars, pubs.  For the latter, the 2 metre rule is difficult to implement.   We shall have to wait and see whether the people who went to the beaches over the bank holiday weekend have contracted the virus or not.  It is now a fortnight since then.  Perhaps we should wait for another fortnight to see if anybody attending the protests have contracted the virus. If there are any new cases, then the R number will go above 1, and we go back to lockdown? 

Ivonne Holliday ● 2123d