Forum Topic

utterly incensed

I have been in lockdown, as have many others, for my own and others protection.  How on earth can these mass protests be allowed, going against all guidelines?. This is apart from the fact that it is not a British Isles problem.  The utter selfishness of irresponsible people absolutely sickens me.Cannot 'meeting places' be locked down?  Football fans are unable to meet..  How about opening a stadium for all the protesters to go to? I really am upset.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 1883d36 Comments

I'm ecstaticly happy for people with asthma to be exempt. There just aren't that many of them. 9/10 of the people I see without a mask are a selfish and/or ignorant bastard. 1 in 10 might have asthma. I can't tell which is which. You all know who you are.

Michael Winstanley ● 1881d

You brought up the date of 8th May.  I totally agreed with you that the people laying around on beaches were predominately white and it was utterly obnoxious and to be deplored. I mentioned it happened to be my birthday.  It was.  It was a milestone one to which many family members had been looking forward to for some months.  It in no way undermines my feelings towards mans inhumanity to man.But I still maintain that mass meetings for any reason at this time should not be sanctioned, whether they be for pleasure or protest.  Yes.  Considering I am a 'war' child, I do indeed consider myself fortunate to be alive. It, the war, taught me very many things,admittedly not until I was a lot older did I understand the implications of race, culture and intolerance. That is partly why I so hate intolerance and lack of communication and understanding between our'masters' and ourselves

Barbara Shillabeer ● 1882d

Absolutely. Also of course sickening to see the other 3 standing and watching. They should be sent down too

Jane Carter ● 1882d

I agree that gatherings are unwise in this time. I am personally affected by the levels of this disease in this country in my job (without going into specifics). However whilst mass congregations on Brighton Beach should be condemned, protests should attract some sympathy if you care remotely about an equal and fair society.

Simon Sharp ● 1882d

Barbara you've narrowed down your concern to not only the British Isles but now to your personal enjoyment for a birthday. Incredible levels of selfishness and one which society could do with less of. Others have more eloquently detailed your fortune to still be alive all things considered. Your white privilege is really clear and whilst I am sorry I made assumptions, they turned out to be spot on.

Simon Sharp ● 1882d

Quite agree, Lucille and Maxine -We are all lucky to be alive, 50,000 here have died, and a disproportionate number of BAME people, especially NHS staff. I suggest the original poster focuses on those who will never have another birthday rather than complaining about not being able to celebrate her own

Jane Carter ● 1882d

Everybody is angry Maxine.  I actually cried when I looked at poor Mr Floyd's tortured face, I could barely watch as his breathing got more and more laboured whilst he was pleading for his life.  The police officer's face told a story of its own, to me it looked like he was enjoying the situation, he's probably a psychopath.  He should be prosecuted for 1st degree murder and put away for life.

Sue Hammond ● 1882d

I'm with you there lovey.

Maxine Campbell ● 1882d

Maxine - George Floyd also had a 6 year old daughter.AS far as birthdays are concerned, Iv'e lost count of the people I know  who have had one during lockdown including both myself and one of my daughters. But we are alive, and that matters more than missing one year's celebrations.

Lucille Grant ● 1882d

Yes, Sue. One can't reverse the clock - as far as we know, I know there's some quantum science research looking at that but probably not much help at present! I feel quite lucky we were still going to concerts, theatre, restaurants, opera, conferences, and  travelling on crowded trains, tube, DLR, buses, etc the week ending 14th March - a week before lock down. (I think that was before I read the Ferguson report after that, which was an eye opener.) So far I seemed to escape it, or else I had an asymptotic bout early on? Unfortunately, no way of knowing! The "R" number seems to be on the cusp of either going up again or maybe on a very slow decline ...  I guess the answer is to stay at home if one can or only go out when necessary, but life has to go on ...  

Michael Ixer ● 1882d

Hello Michael, I would love to have a leader like Jacinda Ardern — she is absolutely fantastic!  Unlike others I will not mention at the moment. As for COVID-19, the possibility of a second peak (and possibly more) fills me with dread.  If it happens it will be devastating. I cannot possibly understand: the stupidity and inconsiderate behaviour of people flocking to the beaches and parks en masse during the hot weekends; and the irrational and brainless behaviour of some demonstrators yesterday evening.  Throwing bicycles at police horses left me speechless.  Using the title of this thread, I find that utterly incensed applies equally in both cases.  What they have in common is the astonishing and total disregard of social distancing rules in the midst of a pandemic.   Unforgivable!  Doctors and nurses must have watched the images on the news with disgust and fear.  

Ivonne Holliday ● 1882d

I'm sorry you couldn't celebrate in the way you would have wished. Many here including myself and my son have been unable to celebrate in the way we may have liked but we made the most of it. George Floyd won't be celebrating any more birthdays and his son has no father. People were protesting about injustice against another human being. I do not condone mindless looting or violence but the press are happy to show you what the minority are doing for headlines and scaremongering. frankly if a police officer put his knee in someone's neck until they could no longer breathe, whether black or white it is wrong.  The world is like a pressure cooker right now. I don't rant on here normally but I am so angry right now.

Maxine Campbell ● 1882d

I'm not keen on being a guinea pig either Michael but we may have no choice now.  Even if we avoid another wave in the near future the virus could well return in the annual flu season, plus it could have mutated which may nullify the antibodies the population have produced now. NZ definitely had the right ideas from the start and we must learn from them.  Next time at the beginning of an outbreak we need to have a hard lockdown immediately, make the wearing of face masks mandatory and stop all flights in and out of the country unless they are absolutely necessary.  All those returning to the UK must self isolate for at least two weeks and they should be tested daily.  It's very easy with hindsight isn't it?

Sue Hammond ● 1882d

Simon.  Don't assume what you think I may or may not think.I was and am still am, utterly revolted by the way people flocked to the beaches with only the thoughts of their own pleasure guiding them.  And yes.  It was mostly white people.  I'm not denying it at all.  What I am saying is, people who wantonly put other peoples' lives, against guidance, are the lowest of the low.  Absolutely hateful.As it happened it was my birthday that day.  I too should have been celebrating, instead I was in lockdown. Quite a non event all round this May8th was.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 1882d

Sue. That's an interesting point. I was wondering if the pandemic might naturally dampen down if the antibodies do provide immunity for a period. That doesn't mean we may not encounter a number of new peaks, each of reducing amplitude over the next 6-12-18 months ... not sure I like taking part in a real life (or death) experiment - particularly if the heard immunity theory is wrong! Pity we don't have a decent leader like New Zealand; one that people trust. (Perhaps a case for outsourcing?)

Michael Ixer ● 1882d

Fair comment, Maxine. I didn't mean to imply it was just the protesters who might contribute to a second spike. Those who congregate on beaches or in parks, etc are likely to contribute even more if they don't distance or use face coverings as they're doing it over a more extended period (assuming the protests are focussed on this weekend) and have no excuse other than just wanting to meet up and have fun?

Michael Ixer ● 1882d

Whilst I understand the concern and would have preferred that all wore face covering it would be very convenient for people to blame these protesters if there were a second spike. Those who have had barbeques, family and friend get togethers, who celebrated ve day not fully according to guidelines can also be held culpable. I'm sorry the death of yet another black man was an inconvenience however this type of Issue happens here too. I'd like to know when the protesting may have happened at a more convenient time to suit?

Maxine Campbell ● 1882d

@Simon SharpI totally share your anger over the blatant flouting of the lockdown rules on many beaches around the UK, the images from Brighton and Bournemouth were particularly shocking. I also agree that the vast majority if people on the beaches have been white. Unfortunately many people have been disregarding lockdown rules for many weeks, even before the Cummings saga which has become the convenient excuse to break them. However I am not against small family gatherings on beaches and in parks as long as the social distancing guidelines are adhered to but I think it may be too late to turn the tide.Although I fear another Covid spike after all these mass gatherings on beaches, and to a lesser extent in parks, and now the demonstrations, it will at least show if herd immunity has worked or not. Let's hope it has.

Sue Hammond ● 1882d

Agreed, looking at the news reports the UK police appear to have acted professionally and proportionately in response to unwarranted violence (which is more than can be said by some law enforcement agencies in the US judging by the videos). The vast majority of protests around the UK were peaceful. Inadequate social distancing and lack of masks is unwise and may well lead to a second wave of CV-19 but protesting against inequalities often breaks prevailing laws: the suffragettes, US 1960s civil rights, Tienanmen Square, recent Hong Kong demonstrations, ... for exmple. Laws are set by the privileged in power so often those being unfairly treated see no other option than mass protests. Remember, in the UK, the Windrush scandal and adequate compensation has still not reached a final resolution. 

Michael Ixer ● 1882d

I was incensed by the gratuitous violence metered out against the police. I was incensed by wanton damage to the Cenotaph. I did not mention social distancing. But had I my comment would have been that breaking the social distancing rules is wrong by whomever perpetrated. Are you trying to excuse the gratuitous violence of what I freely concede was a small minority last night?

Leslie McDonnell ● 1882d

Very well said, Simon.

Jane Carter ● 1882d

Were you as "utterly incensed" when people of your skin colour were flouting guidance sunbathing on packed beaches or doing the conga on VE day? I bet not. Check your privilege. I also am wary about densely packed people in a pandemic but your Little England attitude frankly makes me incensed.

Simon Sharp ● 1882d

I watched the demonstration live on Sky TV from about 6.00pm for nearly an hour. My respect for the MPS grew by the minute. Disciplined and controlled they held the line and did all possible to de-escilate throughout. My question, why were the police not issued with face masks? Their health is as important as is the right of others to demonstrate. Peaceful demonstrating....yes. Using a demonstration as an excuse for gratuitous violence....NO!

Leslie McDonnell ● 1882d

Hello Michael, There is a proviso in the guidelines that people that have asthma should be exempt from wearing masks as it is difficult to breath through them. Scarves are a different matter. I agree that social distancing should be respected at all times, but many people do not.  I have also noticed that the stripy tapes at supermarket's queue lines are not 2m apart either. I do strongly believe it is up to each and every one of us to respect the rules and protect each other.  I cannot understand why this is not happening, there again, if the rule are made by the people who break them......  But survival instinct seems to be extremely low of late....

Ivonne Holliday ● 1882d

For some whilwe there have been groups of people just not interested inprotecting the rest of us. I despair at the TV coverage of crowds on beaches. Locally, I despair at the selfish bastards not prepared to give room on the pavement for 2m distancing and I despair at the many useless, selfish. thoughtless people who won't get themselves a face mask -  a scarf would do.As regards the Floyd demonstrators, I think they are following their instincts, towards protection of vulnerable groups. After Cummings, this is now deemed to be encorporated  into the guidelines isn't it?

Michael Winstanley ● 1882d

Yes Sean the number of new infections in London have been going down very well in the last couple of weeks but the demonstrations over the last two days, and another one planned tomorrow, will probably undo all the good work that the lockdown has achieved. Jane, I do basically agree with Andy but these demonstrations in the middle of this pandemic are ill-timed and could put a great many people at further risk of getting this dreadful disease. As someone living with a compromised immune system I am bloody angry about it.I have been listening to live coverage of the demo on LBC this afternoon and although it was fairly peaceful to start with there has been growing tension and some violent clashes in the last couple of hours. Bottles and other missiles were being thrown and a flare was aimed at the mounted police which scared the horses, and an officer was thrown off.  I don't understand why these protests have to be violent?  The LGBT community have faced a lot of antagonism and discrimination over many years but I don't remember them resorting to violence to get their message across.

Sue Hammond ● 1882d

Agree Michael.  To say racism isn’t an issue in the UK is naive at best.  I was struck (and impressed) by the depth of feeling young people in particular feel about the issue of racial inequality.  I have never seen so many of my young colleagues so angry and upset as they were on Tuesday over this issue.

Craig Fordham ● 1882d

Sue. I'm not making (and I don't think others are) a judgement on whether it's worth it, I'm not sure how I would as a white male not subject to racial discrimination. I'm just agreeing with Andy that I can understand why people would feeling strongly enough to risk protesting. If we have policing by consent then provided the protest is peaceful it's better for the police not to interfere. If the issue of racism in the UK had been addressed then there'd presumably be no desire to protest, so there wouldn't be this dilemma? I expect they're following their instinct like Mr Cummings, which Mr Johnson seemed reasonable ...

Michael Ixer ● 1882d

I'm beginning to think some of us have forgotten our own youthful years when we wouldn't have thought twice about demonstrating (even if there had been a pandemic at the time).

Lucille Grant ● 1882d

I think we agree that the demonstrations were very unwise because of the infection risk? We were supporting Andy's comment that we should reflect on the inequalities here and how we might address them. A disproportionate number of BAME people have died from the virus, especially among NHS staff.

Jane Carter ● 1882d

Numbers of news cases and deaths in London are way down, to a tiny fraction of the peak. 
I imagine the protesters weighed up the risks and decided the cause was important enough. 
A bit like the tories' beloved SPAD Cummings

Sean Hodges ● 1882d

Just wait for the spike in new Covid infections.  Will you all think the demonstration was worth it then?  If some of these protesters catch the virus and then infect elderly members of their families who subsequently die, will they think it was worth it?  Irresponsible and selfish.

Sue Hammond ● 1882d

I agree with you Andy.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1883d

Agreed, Andy. 

Michael Ixer ● 1883d

Well said, Andy.

Jane Carter ● 1883d

Difficult one for the Police. If they go in heavy handed to break it up they could unwittingly spark a flame for the minority who will be looking for trouble.One correction Barbara. Whilst the death of Mr Floyd was not on these shores ths issue of equality is one we should all reflect on and consider what we can do to improve the situation here.

Andy Pike ● 1883d