Forum Topic

Britain ready to allow import of chlorinated chicken from the US

This article is behind a paywall (sorry!) but the title and first paragraphs give you the idea. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/03/britain-ready-allow-import-chlorinated-chicken-us/?utm_source=bestforbritain.org&fbclid=IwAR2F8r3pLd2rVnSwCH3f0TVGXW8EfrRKrNHyRuSla5OjGJnIr9I_XAjXEAc I wonder if the aim is to have a deal with the US before the November 2020 elections and to forget a possible deal with the EU.  Very sad indeed.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2133d50 Comments

Good question and I fear the answer may be yes. Just look at what the government’s priorities really are. In my view they are 1) total separation from the EU and its regulations, 2) trade deal with the US, 3) control immigration, 4) fisheries even though less than 1% of GDP, 5) farming, 6) car exports, 7) tourism then 8) environmental and food standards. I think 1) and 2) are about right but maybe some of the others might be in a different order.  And I may have missed something.  But politics and ideology are currently trumping purely economic considerations. All those fake news Project Fear predictions are still real.  With the damage already done by the pandemic the chances of a real economic depression are evident. But still avoidable if we reach the free trade deal with the EU the government is striving for.  The difficulty in their eyes is that will also require adherence to most EU standards hence the current stand-off.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2130d

A question. If we drop food standards to conclude a trasde deal with the US does that jeopardise any deal with the EU as we would no longer have adequate food standards to export to them? So farmers could possibly be squeezed by both cheap imports coming from the US and losing European markets?

Michael Ixer ● 2130d

No Catherine that cannot be true!  Surely you must realise this because it's in the Mail and they only publish fake news and lies?!

Sue Hammond ● 2130d

Here is an article not behind a paywall - the ads are annoying, but bear with it, it is worth reading https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8395291/Americans-sick-food-year-no-wonder-Britons-refuse-eat-says-Sue-Davies.html?fbclid=IwAR3V5bhVfR9UMtRGWQTqLiolYR5MGTyqYzOSVqcrBJ01GwyYJ_u0ei1dpeAThe article was written by Which?’s head of consumer protection and food policy

Catherine Schade ● 2130d

Were those insect parts not recipe suggestions then?

David Ainsworth ● 2131d

Richard. I guess one has to take a pragmatic view on these things 🙂 Even fresh lettuce and other salad ingredients often comes with added caterpillars, etc that need to be washed off. And, if one's listed to people who've worked in food manufacturing facilities, the safest think is not to eat ...

Michael Ixer ● 2131d

Ivonne: because he's one vegetarian on this forum that I definitely know about.

Richard Carter ● 2132d

Listen, if a rat-haired maggot can make it to be President, then the U.S. really is the land of opportunity.

Bill Christie ● 2132d

Richard, why mention Mike Ixer specifically?  

Ivonne Holliday ● 2132d

Yuk!!!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2132d

See? It's not just chlorinated chicken but lots of other goodies for us to enjoy, as this report in the Independent sets out:"Insect-filled chocolates, rat hair-infested noodles, and orange juice containing maggots are just some of the “horrors” UK consumers could be forced to accept if post-Brexit Britain signs a wide-ranging trade deal with the USA.In the US, producers adhere to a “Defects Levels Handbook,” which sets out the maximum number of foreign bodies like maggots, insect fragments and mould that can be in food products before they are put on the market.For example, US producers are allowed to include up to 30 insect fragments in a 100g jar of peanut butter; as well as 11 rodent hairs in a 25g container of paprika; or 3mg of mammalian excreta (typically rat or mouse excrement) per each pound of ginger."https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/food-standards-brexit-uk-us-trade-deal-maggots-rat-hair-worms-insects-mould-products-a8575721.htmlYummee! What delights: rat hairs, insects and maggots! The only disappointment is for vegetarians like Mike Ixer, who won't be able to enjoy this largesse!

Richard Carter ● 2132d

Oh, Michael, what a horrible thought! But it really means we should all grow our vegetables, herbs and fruit at home, somehow! A bit difficult if you live in a flat. Is anybody growing anything at home?  We have apples, pears, cherries, strawberries, raspberries, mandarines, basil, oregano, thyme, mint and garlic.  I have to say, we buy the pots of herbs in the supermarket and re-pot them... Veggies (whether from seed or not) will have to follow! Any meat we eat has to be purchased of course.  I think farmers' markets are the way forward because I do not think supermarkets will label all growers and producers.  Well, if they do, they will provide a British county — be it production or processing.....

Ivonne Holliday ● 2132d

Hello Elizabeth, Yes, it is a matter of animal husbandry and welfare.  For one, chickens are washed with disinfectants to eliminate the possibilities of e-coli and salmonella everywhere.   The difference is that in the EU, and the UK up to now I suppose, the chickens are washed with a solution of 10% disinfectant (which could be chlorine).  In the US the proportion is 50% because that means they do not need to clean very thoroughly the processing plants. The difference is quite sobering, I think.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2132d

Richard. Perhaps he really meant we're going to import it from the US and give it away as part of Universal Credit?

Michael Ixer ● 2132d

So much for Gove's reassurances (if anyone believed them in the first place):

Richard Carter ● 2132d

@AM 04.06.20  21.39I wasn't arguing for it.  Bunny asked a question and I responded.  I repeat, just don't buy it, and you may prefer to stop buying supermarket salads as well because EU food safety rules demand that salads must be washed and this almost always means using chlorine. For salads — which can pick up bugs such as salmonella and norovirus — such washes are the best protection. Fresh fruit and vegetables cannot be heated, smoked, pickled or even frozen without ruining them, so they are washed.  Below is some relevant info from Fullfact.org:"We spoke to the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA)—an EU agency—and the British Poultry Council (BPC). Neither said it was unsafe to eat chicken rinsed with chlorine, but both raised different concerns about the process.The BPC said it was concerned about the impact on British farmers and standards if chlorine-washed chicken from the US started to be imported.The EFSA says it stands by its findings from 2005 research that concluded:“On the basis of available data and taking into account that processing of poultry carcasses (washing, cooking) would take place before consumption, the Panel considers that treatment with trisodium phosphate, acidified sodium chlorite, chlorine dioxide, or peroxyacid solutions, under the described conditions of use, would be of no safety concern.”My guess is the BPC's main concern is with regard to the financial impact of importing huge amounts of chicken from the US would have on the UK industry.

Sue Hammond ● 2132d

This reminds me how amusing it was when KFC changed their distribution partner to DHL and supplies dried, and the tabloids made it seem like a national disaster. How COVID-19 puts things into perspective ...

Michael Ixer ● 2132d

Ms Hammond'If chlorinated chicken appears on our supermarket shelves, together with chlorinated salad (which we've been eating for years anyway), just don't buy it. Simple'.I totally agree with you.All food should make clear the country of origin.That would mean it is easy NOT to buy US chemically washed chicken and its hormone full beef, all produced in its sickening breeding, rearing and processing factories.Same applies to Brazilian beef reared on grass land reclaimed in the rapidly deforested Amazon region.Buy British I say, and hope our producers manage to maintain the standards imposed by the EU (which no farming organisation objected to).However Ms Hammond I suggest you do not pop out to your nearest 'Chicken Shack' for a bucket of wings and some chips.This will of course have been sourced from who knows where.It is their customers who will of course be exposed to crap food if Liz Truss has her way.The rest of us can just queue at a social distance at Waitrose !

John Hawkes ● 2132d

When I worked in New York 30 years ago I used to buy a lot of chicken from the supermarket, and I'm still here! Also varieties of fish I'd never heard of.But I suppose it's a matter of animal husbandry and welfare, and protecting our own farmers.

Elizabeth Balsom ● 2132d

Well, if they don't want to label their law enforcement staff like all tolatarian states they're not likely to want their crap food identified, are they? Are they trying to make a good case for purchasing products from totalitarian stats, like Huwawei 5G?https://www.huffpost.com/entry/william-barr-justice-department-protests-trump_n_5ed8330ec5b6513fdffca21aOf course the real issue that needs resolving is the inequities in our own society which means people are searching for the cheapest food irrespective of its quality?

Michael Ixer ● 2132d

i would imagine 'no country of origin labelling' is already being discussed.

Matt Palmer ● 2132d

Even if you believe in free markets shaping themselves as driven by consumer choice, then the key thing is to keep E.U. standards of labelling on goods; Country of Origin, Free Range, Organic, Additives, etc.  And then educate the British consumer so they understand the choices that they are making. When the big corporations start pushing to remove those labels we must fight back.

Bill Christie ● 2132d

The only difference between a lot of the chicken you currently eat and the US chicken is the amount of chlorine used. The EU already allows 10% solutions for cleaning. The US 50%. The issue isn't and shouldn't be about chlorine (and never was). The US chicken is raised in conditions so appalling that they meet zero welfare requirements for chickens raised in the EU.

James Morris ● 2132d

I agree this report is part of the softening up process. Chlorinated chicken may be allowed in but at a higher tariff to protect British farmers. But no longer an outright ban as once promised.  If the only people who complain are the “usual suspects” (= Remainers) then that will be taken as a green light.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2132d

Not really, Andy. The NHS, like chlorinated chicken, is another area supposedly excluded from US-UK trade negotiations. Let's hope so ...

Michael Ixer ● 2132d

Very true Matt! Better  start growing my own lol

Lucille Grant ● 2132d

Chlorinated chicken ........NHS ??? Another mighty leap by Putney forum.

Andy Pike ● 2132d

Andy. That's very true and one of the reasons I stopped eating meat was because of the poor, in some cases fraudulent, practices in the meat industry. (BSE: who in their right mind would put offal into the feed of cattle?) I'm sue there's scope for fraud in the organic veggie markets too, particularly with regard to the large supermarkets and restaurant chains, but if one tries to stick with small veg suppliers, and veggie/vegan restaurants and food manufacturers they are often doing it for more idealistic reasons - which possible accounts for the high rate of  commercial failures!Richard. Yes, chlorinated chicken is in a way a distraction but is one specific point where the government made a promise and can be demonstrated to either keep or renage on. As Andy says, nothing's been signed off yet, but in my opinion the comments on this reflect a gradual shift in position to accept US demands to soften up supports and the leak is to test public opinion?

Michael Ixer ● 2132d

No Andy, an agreement has not yet been signed — the title of the article is "Britain ready to allow import of chlorinated chicken from the US".  The "ready to allow" bit is worrying and I have no doubt that the government wants, first and foremost, a deal with the US — at any cost almost.  Please bear in mind that not long ago, Johnson said that chlorinated chicken would not be accepted.  Hmmmm.  I wonder what sort of NHS we will have at the end of the year....

Ivonne Holliday ● 2132d

i have re read that Telegraph article and cannot see any conformation that any agreement has been made,signed approved etc.its just more rumour, scaremongering and conjecture.  On Matts point that you won't know if chlorinated chicken is in your Curry. Do you really know whats in your shop or restaurant bought curry now? have you seen some of these food places in this country?

Andy Pike ● 2132d

Absolutely right, Matt. Actually, the whole chlorinated chicken thing is rather a distraction and enables the Trumpists to say "it's only chicken  and you can refuse it if you want."The smaller point is that you won't always know the origin of the chicken, but the much larger point is that accepting US trade demands means accepting their debased standards on all foods, and also destroying our own agriculture industry. People really need to grasp this point and not be distracted.

Richard Carter ● 2132d

wont help you with the pesticides Lucille!

Matt Palmer ● 2132d

It's no wonder more people are becoming vegetarian.

Lucille Grant ● 2132d

dont forget hormone-fed beef and crops treated with 82 different pesticides currently banned in the UK and EU.Yum yum!

Matt Palmer ● 2132d

SH:  The trouble with your argument is that the EU-sanctioned hygiene regulations on treatment of chickens are superior to those in the US. It is not good enough to say "Don't buy it if you don't want it". People who are not aware of the difference will buy it anyway, probably on price, and thus end up eating inferior chicken. Is that really what you are happy to see? All the emoticons in the world will not alter that argument. By the way, the only place in the world where the term "rubber chicken" is commonly applied is the US - and always, in my long experience,  to the chlorinated variety. Keep the rubbish out of the UK!

Alexander MacLeod ● 2133d

My response to the 'just dont buy it' comment is always the same.How will you know where it's from? Of course when you're buying from a supermarket shelf you'll know. What about your takeaway curry though? What about your pizza? You won't always have a choice.

Matt Palmer ● 2133d

I wondered when the predictable Leave comment would appear. 🙄If chlorinated chicken appears on our supermarket shelves, together with chlorinated salad (which we've been eating for years anyway), just don't buy it. Simple.

Sue Hammond ● 2133d

@Bunny"I assume that the US chlorinates chicken because it is so poorly raised that it's fairly inedible?  Anyone know?"Chlorination, properly known as antimicrobial washing, is just one of many methods our industrialised food system uses to try to prevent customers from getting sick or even dying as a result of the bugs that have evolved to exploit intensive food production.

Sue Hammond ● 2133d

This is what the Leavers voted for... Hope they are happy that the poorest and most disenfranchised will be eating this.

Ben Rainbow ● 2133d

Mike W. The editing seemed to go wrong somewhere! I was just pointing out (a bit facetiously) that animal welfare doesn't in my opinion have anything to do with the nanny state. From a health point of view I personally don't cared about chlorinated chicken as I don't eat meat. I'm just wondering it the leak from the trade talks is to test public opinion? I'm not sure trade deals are a US priority at the moment? I assume any deal also has to pass through Congress so despite how much of a rush Trump and Johnson might be in the Representatives could reject any deal?

Michael Ixer ● 2133d

Hi Michael don’t totally follow your note,I think my point was that food standards vis a vis chicken in the Uk are not particularly high unless they are certified organic per the links I posted.  I agree it’s horrid that farm animals are fed anti biotics, both for them and for the wider effect of reducing their effectiveness which could have devastating consequences,  this happens here in  the uk as well as elsewhere see here.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/antibiotics-chicken-uk-farms-drug-resistance-poultry-countryfile-a8847326.htmlLinks from both the guardian and the independent - I, trying ;-)I think the nanny state point was that no one will be forced to eat us chickens if they don’t want to.I choose to eat organic when I can but more these days on an animal welfare basis than personal health concerns given that I still eat meat and haven’t become a vegan.David makes the valid point re processed meat but even then I think much processed meat is probably quite low quality and best avoided if one wants to only eat healthier meatI think politics as ever rears it’s head here and a lot of the debate becomes remain/ leave rather than looking at the underlying issues and being even handed between approaches.  That said let’s see what comes out of the talks.  They certainly can’t seem any less promising than the EU ones at present.

Mike Warman ● 2133d

Mike W. I don't see that wanting decent welfare standards for animals? What has animal welfare to do with the so called "nanny state"? I don't think the chickens are asked if they'd prefer to be raised as organic, free range or battery, ok, and would you like that with chlorine? Trump is complaining about poor animal welfare in China causing COVID-19 and, for once, he's probably correct. However, he might want to look at the US animal welfare as well. The over use of anti biotics in factory farming is probably why in a decade or so time many operations will become impossible because of the lack of antibiotics ... that might be alleviated in part by new antibiotic surfaces currently in development but if routine operations like hop replacements became too dangerous to perform because of infections it will definitely be back to the future ... 

Michael Ixer ● 2133d

Mike W. I don't see that wanting decent welfare standards for animals? What has animal welfare to do with the so called "nanny state"? I don't think the chickens are asked if they'd prefer to be raised as organic, free range or battery, ok, and would you like that with chlorine? Trump is complaining about poor animal welfare in China causing COVID-19 and, for once, he's probably correct. However, he might want to look at the US animal welfare as well. The over use of anti biotics in factory farming is probably why in a decade or so time many operations will become impossible because of the lack of antibiotics ... that might be alleviated in part by new antibiotic surfaces currently in development but if routine operations like hop replacements became too dangerous to perform because of infections it will definitely be back to the future ... 

Michael Ixer ● 2133d

"No one will be forced to eat produce from any one country."That's true if it's labelled properly, but problems occur when the chicken (or whatever) is processed into something else, burgers etc, then you have no idea what you're eating or where it came from.

Richard Carter ● 2133d

I don’t think food standards are that great here!  Looking at free range chickens for example here https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/feb/28/what-does-free-range-actually-mean-its-complicatedShows that free range is 13 birds a square metre or just over 25cm square each - sounds pretty horrid to me.  Let alone poor non free range ones.Far better to buy organic which guarantees the birds a far healthier life as well as being healthier to eathttps://www.soilassociation.org/organic-living/why-organic/better-for-animals/poultry-chickens/Organic chicken from the US will be subject to similar health standards.No one will be forced to eat produce from any one country.  I know all like a nanny state on here but can’t people take some responsibility for their own choices and lives?

Mike Warman ● 2133d

I very strongly believe in maintaining and improving our existing UK food standards.  Personally I would like to outlaw all battery farming … but I still like meat.I assume that the US chlorinates chicken because it is so poorly raised that it's fairly inedible?  Anyone know?I believe in people power and think it would be a good idea for every to write to their MP, write to the PM, demonstrate, join Greenpeace and the NFU, whatever it takes.... any ideas?  I'm sure there's a lot going on already, but it's all about lobbying and quite sure the "chlorinated chicken" lobby has been in full swing for some time.

Bunny Payne ● 2133d

Still, looking at what is happening in the US at the moment it might leave the US already fried ...

Michael Ixer ● 2133d

Thank you Michael.  I hope the food labelling will indicate clearly that the products come from the US.  As you say, more broken promises.  Really horrible!  

Ivonne Holliday ● 2133d

Ah, properly washed chicken!

David Ainsworth ● 2133d

A link not behind a paywall:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chlorinated-chicken-british-markets-us-trade-deal-trump-a9548431.htmlMore broken promises. Another good reason for going veggie ...

Michael Ixer ● 2133d