Forum Topic

vindicated Domonic

Apparently  falsified fake news..I should imagine even he might have been surprised by the amount of vitriol unleashed  No doubt whatsoever it will make no difference at all to him, water off a ducks back

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2140d44 Comments

Hello Bunny, Apologies for this late reply but my computer went kaput over the weekend and I have just got it back.  I did try to answer you using my mobile phone but well, it did not happen. I agree, I had nor read the full document at the time.  I check gov..uk and the document on staying at home and away from others (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others) of 23 March 2020 has now been withdrawn.   When you say that the Police do not think CD broke the rules, that is a statement from Durham Police who have jurisdiction in County Durham only.  Hence the trip from London to Durham and back is not being investigated by Durham Police.   You mention Theresa May indicating he had broken the spirit of the rules, I think we all certainly agree with this, and a bit more too.   The rules clearly specified that if a person in a household had COVID 19 symptoms, he/she should isolate for 7 days.  If another person in that household later also showed signs of COVID-19, he/she should isolate for 14 days.  At the briefing of 30 May 2020, Professor Jonathan Van-Tam was very categorical.  He said:   "In my opinion the rules are clear and they have always been clear. "In my opinion they are for the benefit of all. In my opinion they apply to all." What surprised me the most was, in the statement DC gave in No. 10's garden, when referring to childcare issues, he mentioned a footnote in the document.  I would have expected him to say in page(s) xxx, paragraph(s) yyy and related footnotes in the document were relevant to him. That DC is indispensable for BJ, it is extremely evident.  Forgive and forget what DC did?  No, I do not agree with this because then you are saying that the rule of law applies to all except government officials and advisers.  Not good. Thank you for your patience.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2137d

Well John Hawkes, let's start with the first fact, which you would have no reason to know, I am not "Mr", I am "Ms", daft name I know.And yes I do agree that the media writes a lot of nonsense, slightly based on a smidgen of truth, but basically so much of our press is tabloid scandal now, so I would take a care about what I read.

Bunny Payne ● 2137d

'Who would care about the nonsense that the press write and then fire up our fellow citizens, who don't have the brain to work it out for themselves'?Mr PayneI assume you have a good enough brain to work out what in the media is nonsense.So if you don't mind, every time I read something which I don't think rings true, I will refer it to you for verification.In fact perhaps I will set up a new thread - 'Ask Bunny'.Is that OK with you ?As a starter, is it true that Cummings retrospectively revised his blog to refer to his concerns specifically about a potential CORONA virus pandemic - something he claimed in his famed Rose Garden performance.

John Hawkes ● 2137d

And the link that goes with it!https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/01/government-fails-to-distance-dominic-cummings-from-sex-discrimination-case-boris-johnson

Michael Ixer ● 2138d

This could be interest. Obviously, one has to keep an open mind until the tribunal makes its ruling and we know all the facts. If this was a private company I'm sure an out of court settlement with appropriate NDAs would have been reached to avoid any adverse scrutiny and publicity. But obviously, a Tory government can't chuck away taxpayers' money doing something like that if they're maintaining Cummings didn't act inappropriately.  And if he did hed surely have to go? Unless of course Cummings wants to stump up the cash, which it looks he might have to (at least in part) if Khan wins her case. If taxpayers do have to pay anything it just shows more lack of judgement on Johnson's part, particularly in his choice of SPADs. 

Michael Ixer ● 2138d

... whereas Cummings is most definitely a пизда

Richard Carter ● 2138d

Confucius was certainly 非常聪明

Alexander MacLeod ● 2138d

Wasn't Confucius a 孔夫子 though?

David Ainsworth ● 2138d

Well, one, the count was done by the Forum, so but a matter of a moment at the keyboard. Two, I totally lack self-discipline, and do not get done all that I should actually be doing. I have lists of lists just to prove that.But, thank you, I shall rest in the shadow of your pity. And to everybody else, please stop posting anything at all, and, by so doing, help me get the books sorted and the fridge door re-hung.

David Ainsworth ● 2138d

The over-frequent use of Emoticons betrays deficiency of language and absence of thought. Confucius, he say.

Alexander MacLeod ● 2138d

David, I feel a bit sorry for you to be honest if all you have to do with your time is count the number of emojis on this Forum.

Martine Guy ● 2138d

If you search for the 🙄 on this Forum, it has been used 251 (now 252 I guess). Like to wager who used it for about 240 of those times? I'm surprised that it has not been completely worn away.

David Ainsworth ● 2138d

@Ivonne & Lucille"I agree with you Ivonne. 'Do as I say, not what I do' i Cummings mantra.Oh fgs get over yourselves! 🙄

Sue Hammond ● 2138d

I agree with  you Ivonne. 'Do as I say, not what I do' i Cummings mantra.

Lucille Grant ● 2139d

I know this is a serious matter but sometimes the Daily Mash hits the spot ...https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/16-injured-in-this-weekends-eye-tests-20200601197064

Michael Ixer ● 2139d

Bunny  I so agree with all you say on your last post.  Exactly how I feel..  Like you , I eat and enjoy meat, but, excuse the pun, it is beginning to leave a nasty taste in my mouth. However, it is a really beautiful June day.  I am so fortunate to be where I am and well cared for. Let's just hope at least some of the misfortunes affecting people whatever they may be, will improve.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2139d

But, Ivonne, I do agree with you, I hate to sound doomy and I sincerely hope things improve next year, but this year has been awful!!  America rioting and on fire, our crops going to waste and who knows what's going on with Brexit.  I do hope that we don't take on the disgusting animal standards of the US, and that we will boycott anything that comes over here.... our standards are bad enough, but theirs are far worse.Lets face it, this is where all these viruses are coming from, factory farming, low standards, animals and birds kept in revolting and cruel conditions, and that's just in the UK.  The US are FAR worse …..I'm not a vegetarian, I love my meat, but am starting to change my mind....

Bunny Payne ● 2139d

HE DID NOT BREAK THE RULES!!  Apparently there's 90 pages of them and who is going to read them honestly, but he helped to write them.  The Police don't think he broke the rules, although they say it was a minor 'infringement' driving to Barnard Castle.  Teresa may says he broke the 'spirit' of the rules and I see her point.  I have no bad feeling towards him and BJ was not going to sack him because he needs him, I wish everyone could get over it.  So many other people have ACTUALLY broken the rules and don't seem to give a stuff and are continuing to do so.  OK, great for them, but when some of my family work on the front line in the NHS, they're the ones I get cross with.  Good luck to them, they don't get the virus, but how many people are they passing it onto, which does impact on other people.

Bunny Payne ● 2139d

Well Bunny, I disagree with you regarding DC.  He wrote the rules and it is extraordinary that he broke them himself.  Saying this, many people have. What really worries me very much indeed, is not only do we have COVID-19 to contend with, the transition period for Brexit is coming to an end very soon and, to top things up, apparently a drought.  The maize crop has been lost in many parts.  The prospects are not good at all.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2139d

It was interesting that the police outside the US embassy today didn't seem to try and enforce any regulations relating to the  pandemics on the demonstrators.  I expect they didn't want to get into a discusion that it was a better reasonable excuse to leave home to do one's civic duty protesting against the inequities of racism than driving 260 miles to a second home while infected with Covid because of one's instincts? Judging by a Zoom  I was on 2-3 weeks ago the police feel they're in a lose-lose situation. 

Michael Ixer ● 2139d

"I think it's too late to recover people's trust"I do not think that has sank into the Cummings supporters who just see this as a political.Getting the population to follow any sort of public health message will be infinitely more difficult. The police are now in an impossible situation too.It will be the elderly and vulnerable that will pay Johnson's price for keeping him.This may also open up issues with younger generations that may never be resolved.

Ed Robinson ● 2139d

Interesting. I suspect Van-Tam' and Harris's responses had been rehearsed. It allowed them not to directly criticise Cummings but imply his actions were unacceptable and shouldn't be followed. Johnson and Cummings will have seen the polls - also Johnson very obviously silenced his advisors at his briefing a few days ago, opening up not just accusations of a cover up but also denying freedom of speech. It's damage limitation time for the Johnson and the Tory party; unfortunately, as regards following lockdown guidance, I think it's too late to recover people's trust - Cummings should have gone last weekend. Meanwhile, looking at the news, many seem to have given up sticking to the guidelines already; not sure this is a great time to let people who've been shielding back onto the streets, is it?

Michael Ixer ● 2139d

That's one thing I admire about DC "water off a duck's back".  Who would care about the nonsense that the press write and then fire up our fellow citizens, who don't have the brain to work it out for themselves?Good for him...I do admire him for his utter contempt for the (trash) media, even though it hurts him.

Bunny Payne ● 2139d

Going back to Cummings, it's significant that, at today's briefing, Jenny Harries, the DCMO for England, was implicitly very critical of him:“I thought his [Jonathan Van-Tam, the other DCMO, who spoke yesterday] exposure of what he felt was exactly right. We usually say exactly the same things because we think in public health terms, and I think that’s right. From my own perspective, I can assure you that on a matter of personal and professional integrity, I will always try to follow the rules, as I know he does.  The important thing there is that they are all rules for all of us, and it is really important as we go through into this next critical phase that we do all follow them to the best of our ability, and even minimise some of the freedoms that are there.”After these statements, it's impossible to claim that Cummings was vindicated, isn't it?

Richard Carter ● 2139d

Well if Johnson is playing the long game, you’ll get to see the error of your pro-Brexit views in due course Sue. Maybe sooner than you expect. Which is a great shame for the rest of us who didn’t believe the lies in the first place. My bet is on Johnson (and Cummings) being gone by the New Year.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2139d

At the end of the day (and I really hate the term) Cummings is going nowhere for the foreseeable future.  Boris and David Frost need his strong guidance to help with the Brexit trade negotiations, especially now that Barnier has crawled out and is playing hardball.  Boris is not offensive enough to be a hard dealer but Cummings is.  Thank goodness.

Sue Hammond ● 2139d

"It couldn't be hidden so why not post those parts of it too, just for balance David?"Jeez, you are a caution, and no mistake. I don't do balance, and neither do you. Life's too short.

David Ainsworth ● 2139d

It couldn't be hidden so why not post those parts of it too, just for balance David?

Sue Hammond ● 2139d

Agree Ed.  Cummings certainly isn’t vindicated.  The perception of the majority of the public (including the majority of Conservative voters) is that he broke the rules.  As a result the government is rightly accused of hypocrisy.  Meanwhile Boris has been publically opposed by a number of his backbenchers and has seen his approval rating plummet off the back of all this.  That said, he has a healthy majority and an election is years away, so presumably he’s playing the long game and hopes that this will all soon be forgotten.On a different note something that tickled me this week was a YouGov poll that asked people whether they’d prefer to see friends or family.  The majority of Labour and Lim Dem voters said friends, whilst the majority of Conservative and SNP voters said family.  UKIP voters also said family, but a whopping 26% said they’d prefer to see neither.  Guess some people love the isolation!

Craig Fordham ● 2139d

"He is so excited to point out that Cummings was allegedly rebuked by Boris that he neglected to make any reference to the following in the same report:"I knew that I didn't need to, as I could depend upon you to bring it up. Do you really believe that I could have expected to hide it from you while quoting from the same article?

David Ainsworth ● 2139d

I'm missing the logic here.How does anything anyone else does change Cummings actions?If a murder is witnessed by a burglar should we excuse the murder????What a nonsense argument.Two wrongs do not make a right!

Ed Robinson ● 2139d

The Tim Mathews story was false and shown to be such, but it doesn't invalidate the report by Robin Lees. That he made a similar journey to Cummings is totally irrelevant for the simple reason that it is Cummings who was involved in making up the rules that he himself broke, whereas Lees had no responsibility for them at all.This desperate article is a very feeble attempt at straw-clutching.

Richard Carter ● 2139d

I think Barbara is referring to an article in today's Sunday Mail online which DA must have also read because he's made reference to it in two posts.  He is so excited to point out that Cummings was allegedly rebuked by Boris that he neglected to make any reference to the following in the same report:"Mr Johnson’s ‘last chance’ ultimatum comes after Remainer and Left-wing critics leapt on the saga to take revenge for Mr Cummings’s role in winning the Brexit referendum and a landslide Tory Election victory."The Mail on Sunday can today reveal that a retired teacher who reported the No 10 adviser to police broke lockdown rules himself – while a supposed ‘witness’ who claimed Mr Cummings had made a second trip to the region admitted he made his statement up as a joke.Tim Matthews said that he doctored the details on an app used by runners to record routes and times to make it seem like he had seen Mr Cummings in Durham six days after he had returned to London.Meanwhile, former teacher Robin Lees, who called police about Mr Cummings taking a trip from his parents’ Durham home to Barnard Castle, last night admitted to making a long-distance trip himself."Here is the article in full:Boris puts Dominic Cummings on his 'last chance' as witness who went to police is HIMSELF accused of breaking lockdown, another admits he MADE UP sighting and Anti-Brexit peer is identified as plotter https://mol.im/a/8372911

Sue Hammond ● 2139d

Predumably you folk have seen the guy who claimed to have seen him 5 days after the eyesight test has now admitted he made it all up as a joke !! Great journalism in checking their sources.Nevertheless he was wrong to do what he did but come on lets move on. Or let's list all those that have transgreessd the rules. Including 4 or 5 labour MPs and others.  But 2 or 6 wrongs dont make a right.

Andy Pike ● 2139d

The strange thing about Cummins is that he poses as this great intellectual, always pulling in tranches of quotes from scientific writers as if he was one himself (he actually studied history at Oxford). And then he blows the whole thing by claiming that he foresaw the coronavirus pandemic last year - a claim that was soon shown up to be a lie when it turned out he had inserted the "forecast" into his blog this April. Not exactly the Piltdown man forgery, just a bit of shabby chicanery.The FT yesterday had an entertaining column by Henry Mance in which he characterised Cummings as the Nostradamus of North London (https://www.ft.com/content/6aa50a68-a186-11ea-94c2-0526869b56b0), but it seems to me he's more our very own Poundshop Machiavelli.

Richard Carter ● 2139d

Just seen an interesting Spectator article by James Kirkup suggesting that, thanks to Johnson's refusal to abandon his aide, Cummings is now more powerful than ever.That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Nietzsche

David Ainsworth ● 2139d

Or is it just the Mail spreading more fake news.Remember: FAKE NEWS=LIES intended to manipulate opinions to someone's unscrupulous advantage.

Michael Ixer ● 2139d

I expect that is why Johnson has rebuked him and given him one last chance.

David Ainsworth ● 2139d

But can you travel to someone else’s second home?Of course the biggest piece of “fake news” from Cummings was the claim in the Downing Street garden that he had written about the threat of a pandemic on his blog and called for preparation. In fact he had “edited” the relevant blog entry from the year before just before the conference and added the text. A cheat. Excellent article by Nick Cohen in today’s Observer covering this incident: “Evil Geniuses? Hardly, we’re in the hands of the lazy and incompetent”Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2139d

I checked the government guidelines that have been updated following Monday's easing and you still can't travel to your second home. Unless you are Dominic Cummings or his wife of course!

Ed Robinson ● 2140d

I think that the Daily Mail has the biggest fake fact in its headline today:-"Boris puts Dominic Cummings on his 'last chance'"God, he must be shaking!

David Ainsworth ● 2140d

Or perhaps to point 4 in the long list that I posted: 4. Then polls showed 52% of people wanted Cummings to resign.
Later research corrects this, in pointing out that the actual figure is not 53%, but 68%:

Richard Carter ● 2140d

I think Barbara is referring to his wife's account that was mentioned on radio and published in the Spectator.Or the Laura kuenssberg tweets quoting a source.Is this not the case Barabara?

Ed Robinson ● 2140d

"Apparently  falsified fake news."What, you are suggesting all of it was falsified?

David Ainsworth ● 2140d