Forum Topic

TFL Gets Govt Bailout

However, the Govt will partially take over the running of TFL.  Humiliation for Khan.  Couldn't happen to a more deserving man,

Sue Hammond ● 2154d30 Comments

Thanks for bringing up trolley buses Andy, they are a technology that works: quiet, non-polluting and an altogether brilliant idea. If Johnson had brought them back he'd have won deserved praise: another opportunity missed.

Richard Carter ● 2153d

Bloody hell its like all our yesterdays. You'll be talking about trolley buses  next .

Andy Pike ● 2153d

"Unusable water cannons"Impulse buys on Ebay! Just to impress Joanna Lumley, I expect. "Look girly, with this beauty, I can water all the flowers on your bridge in 6.5 seconds."

David Ainsworth ● 2153d

So the only Johnson vanity project that was any use and not a waste of money wasn't even his, it was Red Ken's! I suppose  if people are going to comment on Khan's height we ought to note that these failed projects might result from Johnson's somewhat oversized girth indicating a possible over indulgence in claret or similar 🙂 And Starmer's attention to detail and consistency as a lawyer means Johnson will need to keep a clear head for PMQs ...

Michael Ixer ● 2153d

And the Boris bikes were originally Ken bikes:-https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/livingstone-plan-for-street-corner-cycle-hire-stands-781025.html (Ind Feb 12th 2008)"Thousands of bicycles will be available for hire from street-corner stands under a £500m programme to "transform" London into a cycling-friendly city.About 6,000 bikes will be available to use for temporary periods in central London, with special stalls to be set up every 300 metres, as part of plans unveiled by the Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone."

David Ainsworth ● 2153d

Not forgetting the so-called "Boris buses," the whole rationale for which was that they were supposed to be like the Routemasters, in that you were could jump off the back platform between stops. Except that you couldn't, and they had to scrap the conductors because they were too expensive. And yet another thing: the windows couldn't be opened so in summer it was like getting in a sauna. So not only an expensive vanity project, but a completely useless vanity project.

Richard Carter ● 2153d

Unusable water cannons

Lucille Grant ● 2153d

And the water cannons?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2153d

How much was the garden bridge? Over £40 million wasted. Who was the Mayor? Profligate blond chap?

David Ainsworth ● 2153d

Sue is right!You have to factor in the Boris Bus and Cable Car£300m for Boris Bus£50m for cable carThe good news is that the cable car promotes social distancing as no one seems to use it!I think we could all agree the cost of various TFL projects should be made available.Especially considering that ambulances, fire engines and police cars can not use Hammersmith Bridge.

Ed Robinson ● 2153d

Thank you David, I had forgotten about the government abolishing the grant in 2018.  Hmmmm And Michael, I agree with you.  It is difficult to see how people will be able to avoid public transport to go to work in Central London.  It is interesting to note that the congestion charge (and low emissions I think) was/were stopped during the lockdown.  In addition, traffic wardens were not around. Now that people are encouraged to avoid using public transport but yes walk, cycle and use their cars, not only has the congestion charge been increased from Monday but its hours of operation extended. Your comment "I guess the government wasn't going to make it easy for the Mayor" is spot on.  Politics above pragmatic solutions.  How very sad, if not spiteful, indeed. But am not too sure what will be gained from TfL going bust, will the Department for Transport suffer as well?  As for driving being more expensive, there is no doubt about it.  It appears to me driving or motorists will be the scapegoat for the government — as I assume the MPs do not pay congestion charge? 

Ivonne Holliday ● 2153d

Read David's post above Sue - he puts it better than me.

Caroline Whitehead ● 2153d

I'm sure someone will put me right on this but I can't imagine many office workers can commute into London - they just don't have anywhere to park. The only exceptions to that are senior managers and directors who have underground car parking spaces, and in rare some instances spaces adjacent to the building. As far as I'm aware most people driving into central London are trades people, service engineers and salespeople but normally their company is plucking up the tab. Ok, I'm sure there's some exceptions, particularly sole traders or people living close to the boundary. I guess the government wasn't going to make it easy for the Mayor.  Perhaps better than TfL going bust? I'm sure long term after COVID takes a back seat they'll be a need to move people from cars to public transport so perhaps it's just getting people used to driving being expensive?

Michael Ixer ● 2153d

Won't wash Caroline, that's only a recent implementation. TFL has been in trouble for a long time.

Sue Hammond ● 2153d

A balanced overview from Citymetric:-https://www.citymetric.com/transport/seven-thoughts-tfl-s-bail-out-national-government-5111Seven points beginning with:-" 1. Something like this was probably inevitableTfL has not received any operating grant from central government since 2018 – the result of a 2015 agreement between then Tory chancellor George Osborne and then Tory mayor Boris Johnson (now the, er, Prime Minister) that London’s transport network should be self-funding. That means that all the money required to keep the tubes, buses and so forth moving comes from fares: a situation unique in Britain, and probably in Europe, too.But with the entire city in lockdown and people being advised not to use public transport, fares have collapsed – by 90%, according to TfL spokespeople. This was obviously unsustainable, even before the government began encouraging people back to work once again. So: it’s hard to see how the agency could have avoided asking for a bail out."

David Ainsworth ● 2153d

I agree Caroline, also the amount of money they have "lost" due to COVID-19, the reduction of transport services as well as the reduced income from the congestion charge.  I am puzzled as to this imposition from the Government on TfL (that is under the Department of Transport of course).  The Government is asking people to avoid public transport and to travel into work (those who cannot work from home) by car, bicycle or car.  But on Monday, the congestion charge will increase from £11.50 to £15 (a 30% hike).  So, they are encouraging people to walk or cycle to work.  I expect quite a few people cannot do either of the latter and will certainly be using public transport — endangering a second wave? I think this decision is based on politics and not a pragmatic one to recoup money.  From a cynical point of view, when are the elections for Mayor of London and the Assembly expected to take place?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2153d

Perhaps one of the more obvious reasons that TFL is in difficulties is because travelling on Buses has been made free in order to preserve the safety of the drivers.

Caroline Whitehead ● 2153d

Are you speaking to me? It's not a snipe, it's my opinion that's all.

Sue Hammond ● 2153d

@Jonathan"Not even the Telegraph is suggesting this is a humiliation for Khan. Not sure who’s putting that story about."I disagree with you. Nobody is 'putting a story about', it's my opinion. After TFL begged for cash earlier this week, Khan has been forced to accept conditions on the government bailout, humiliating the Labour Mayor.TFL had said they would not be able to run full services as Londoners started to return to work.  Blackmailing the Government?In return for the £1.6bn loan, Khan has been forced to relinquish significant control to the Conservative Government.TFL will now display ‘Stay Alert’ posters, services will return to pre-COVID19 levels, despite Khan saying initially that he would only restore it to 75%. Government officials will now sit on the struggling organisation’s board and will increase scrutiny over its finances.Spending on City Hall employees has risen by 82% while Sadiq Khan has been mayor, according to official figures. Staff costs in Boris Johnson's final mayoral budget for 2016-17 were £36m, while the proposed budget for 2020-21 under Khan show them to be at £65.5m.Since being elected in 2016, Khan's profligacy and mismanaging of London’s finances has largely caused the dire situation that TFL is in. Perhaps Khan should stop focussing on his own PR, his anti-Brexit campaigning and virtue signalling. Oh, and stop taking endless inane selfies. 

Sue Hammond ● 2153d

"Humiliation for Khan.  Couldn't happen to a more deserving man."Someone could do with looking at Bunny's recent thread...

Richard Carter ● 2153d

Government have insisted apparently that the freedom and over 60 pass not be used during peak time.May impact some people.

Ed Robinson ● 2153d

Hopefully a lot of working practices will now change for the better bringing a better work:life balance and fewer people will be struggling and stressing their way across London twice a day every day to sit in an office when they could work online.

Philippa Bond ● 2154d

"Or ferries."You mean fairies - as in non existent I assume :)

Ed Robinson ● 2154d

Oh well, I expect that now there will be enough tube trains for everybody to socially distance themselves, even at rush-hour. And the platforms will immediately grow larger.

David Ainsworth ● 2154d

Or ferries.

Philippa Bond ● 2154d

I was in tears Andy.Perhaps we need a tzar of tzars! Just kidding. I think most people can agree that tzars are just a publicity stunt.DfT has hardly been a good model for rail either.

Ed Robinson ● 2154d

Get rid of the tzars not the tears although that would help

Andy Pike ● 2154d

1st thing to get is get rid of the tears.The night tzar,the cycling star,the walking tzar, the hopping on one leg tar , the tzar for people without a tzar etc etc

Andy Pike ● 2154d

Not even the Telegraph is suggesting this is a humiliation for Khan. Not sure who’s putting that story about. TfL has long been a monster in need of taming and Johnson and Lister failed to hack through its limitless bureaucracy. Yes, DfT civil servants will join its board and join a wider review of its funding and operations and it will be interesting to see how much of that discussion takes place in the open. DfT is hardly a model of transparency. Just look at the way it has seemingly been in thrall to the aviation lobby all these years.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2154d

Sadly I do not believe that will lead to more openess or accountability and those are the ingredients that make good governance.

Ed Robinson ● 2154d