Forum Topic

'To lift or not to lift' for those who believe  we should lift lockdown

I'm far from alone in my 'self-righteous' belief then Mike (Warman)!Fewer than one in five of the British public believe the time is right to consider reopening schools, restaurants, pubs and stadiums. The findings, in a new poll for the Observer, suggest Boris Johnson will struggle to convince people to return their lives to normal if he tries to ease the lockdown soon.The poll by Opinium, taken between Wednesday and Friday last week, found 17% of people think the conditions have been met to consider reopening schools, against 67% who say they have not been, and that they should stay closed.UK lockdown must not be lifted until Covid-19 transmission is understood, say scientists Opposition to reopening restaurants and pubs – and allowing mass gatherings in sports and other stadiums to resume – is even higher. Just 11% of people think the time is right to consider reopening restaurants, while 78% are against. Only 9% believe it would be correct to consider reopening pubs, while 81% are against; 7% say it would be right to allow mass gatherings at sports events or concerts to resume, with 84% against.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/02/fearful-britons-oppose-lifting-lockdown-schools-pubs-restaurants-opinium-poll?CMP=share_btn_tw

Lucille Grant ● 2228d20 Comments

Conjunctivitis is a recognised symptom of COVID 19. Source for that info is Ophthalmologist magazine and CBC news. It is a strange virus. Reports on CBC news also detail inflamed and ulcerating toes in children and rashes on the stomach. Much has still to be learned about it!

Katrina Black ● 2224d

Heard that wrong Barbara it's been cancelled

Andy Pike ● 2224d

In the late 1970s, can't remember the year, I had an horrendous bout of conjunctivitis (I do have eye problems0 to such an extent that the ophthalmologist I was seeing at the time was very concerned - and transmitted his fear to me! I had to see him every day, he was upping the strength of the eye drops and at one point said he would take photos to show his friends which really cheered me up.Ages after, we were chatting and he said, your body fought off the flu that was going round, but your eyes couldn't. So I think conjunctivitis can be related to these corona viruses. I have two friends who seem to have had it, one 57 (Hammersmith), the other 77 (Putney). Both report the utterly debilitating fatigue and the 57 year old said her heart was beating out of her chest.

Elizabeth Balsom ● 2228d

Lucille. I don't know anyone locally who has had it. Just after lockdown my wife had conjunctivitis (she's not had that before) and I had muscular inflammation in my lower back - I do occasionally suffer from sciatica but this was different as I couldn't get unto a comfortable position at all in bed - which are supposedly secondary symptoms, but we didn't have a temperature or cough, and we seem fine otherwise but it was odd we had that at the same time. My cousin and his family in Poole had symptoms (they're all ok now although my cousin is still a bit tired) and a friend of ours who lives in Kent caught it while in hospital for another infection (!), he's out of hospital now and recovering very slowly but he does have other health issues. Another cousin of mine, who also lives in Kent, had a persistent cough for several weeks but was eventually given antibiotics for bronchitis which seems to gave fixed that!Glad Jean is still on the mend, it doors seem to take time.Craig, pleased your getting over it.

Michael Ixer ● 2228d

Thanks Craig - glad you feel better too.

Lucille Grant ● 2228d

...and glad to hear Jean is on the mend, Lucille

Craig Fordham ● 2228d

The problem with the lockdown, is that in the absence of clear government communications, everyone has their own view on the reasons/rules for lockdown.The lockdown that the country has self induced was never the one the government contemplated.Its going to be very difficult for the government to communicate a way out.But lockdown costs lives too, as does a poor economy, lack of testing.....etcIf only it were as simple as stay at home saves lives

Ed Robinson ● 2228d

I think I had it four weeks ago.  I developed flu-like symptoms for c. 5 days which knocked me for six - I couldn’t find the strength to get out of bed on one day.  I then had a cough for about 10 days and ongoing fatigue - I’d have days when I felt much better but then the following day I’d feel lousy again.  At no stage, however, did I have a fever, so who knows whether it was CV or something else.  Fully recovered now, fortunatelyIn total I think I know c. 15 people who think they might have had it.  A further 6-8 who have no had no symptoms but have lost their sense of smell and taste - in the case of two close friends this has been for over a month and counting.

Craig Fordham ● 2228d

Hi Ivonne thank you - Jean is much better but still has a recurring cough and yes some fatigue. We've decided that if WBC offer the testing they did  last week again we will both take one to see whether either of us are  infectious.Out of curiosity has any other forum member or close relative experienced symptoms of the virus?

Lucille Grant ● 2228d

Hello Lucille, I hope you are well and that Jean is recovering nicely from COVID-19. Does he continue to suffer from fatigue? The incidence of COVID-19 in Greater London is by far the greatest in the whole country.  Wandsworth has the highest average incidence in London and the country.  http://www.putneysw15.com/default.asp?section=community&link=http://neighbournet.com/server/common/ldrswandcovid001.htm When compared with other countries, the UK is 4th in the number of confirmed cases (after the US, Spain and Italy) but 3rd in the number of recorded deaths (after the US and Italy).  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/countries-where-coronavirus-has-spread/ Also, people may be asymptomatic now but incubating COVID-19.  The thought of a second wave of COVID-19 fills me with dread! Based on these statistics, I do not agree with easing the lockdown now, particularly not in Greater London.  It could happen, very gradually, in places with low confirmed cases of COVID-19 such as South West England (3,392), Wales (5,610), East of England (6,002) and Scotland (6,067). https://www.google.com/search?q=coronavirus+deaths+uk&oq=Coronavirus+death&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l7.14782j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 We will have to wait and see what happens on Thursday when I think the government will be discussing the issue of lockdown. I wholeheartedly hope that all the cancer patients — as well as those with heart diseases and other very serious illnesses — can receive the treatments they require as soon as possible. 

Ivonne Holliday ● 2228d

Thanks Lucille. That should amuse my wife who is a professional business writer and if she "subs" anything I've written we usually have to agree my forest language is maths - or FORTRAN 🙂 I was thinking the post I put elsewhere about Sweden should readily be here. It's really background to the different approach taken there compared with the rest of Europe. Perhaps it's more Democratic by risky in its approach?One thing to keep in mind when discussing the action taken in Sweden is it was guided down the route it took by it's constitution:https://www.foreigner.fi/articulo/coronavirus/the-legal-reason-why-sweden-could-not-impose-lockdown/20200426195308005498.htmlTo a large extent it relies on its citizens using common sense and being responsible - and my experience of working with Danes, Swedes and Norwegians (albeit in the 1970s) is they are better than many in the UK at being good, resdponsible citizens. I hope it works out ok for them but compared to their neighbours in Scandinavia it's not looking to be working so well at present: time will tell.  

Michael Ixer ● 2228d

Michael, as usual you put the argument far more eloquently than I can.Meanwhile again, where are the masks we  are supposed to use when we are out and about? How can there be an ease of lockdown without measures in place? This virus isn't just going to disappear and it has far more repercussions healthwise than a common cold which scientists still haven't cured.From what I see  happening  in France (we watch French news programmes most days) and Spain for example, they are all tying themselves up in knots over  how and when to ease lockdown too.

Lucille Grant ● 2228d

Andy. I'd agree. There needs to be a granular approach. So hospitals, where more testing and controls can be implemented, could be opened up to treatments of other serious illnesses first, in the near future? Other industries/services as and when test, track and trace results allows. Unfortunately, leisure and hospitality may need to take a back seat except, perhaps, sports and concerts which can be played or poerformed behind closed doors and broadcast to fans?With regard to the NHG Carnival, I suspect it will be cancelled but no need to do that immediately just in case it things do change rapidly for the better? The Formula E race, scheduled for July to race around and through the ExCel centre was only cancelled formally last week although it was unlikely to run around the beds at the Nightingale hoidpital now located there 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 2228d

Sorry  Mike - I wasn't implying that supporting local businesses is selfish - far from it. The selfishness is going out needlessly to buy take out coffee, whether from a local business or not. We are all missing out on our usual lifestyles atm. I'm ok thanks! But, having seen first hand what coronovirus is like,  perhaps I am  more cautious than others re  lifting the lockdown.Re this forum I try always to be polite  but sometimes impatience overcomes me. In any case, I've reached the age where I'm entitled to be a GOW!Best wishes, Lucille

Lucille Grant ● 2228d

judging by the arrivals at Heathrow, I wonder if the gov. is easing the lock-down by stealth. (having quiet skies has been wonderful)https://www.heathrow.com/arrivalswith regard to more traffic, I took my car for a 10 minute drive as it has been idle for over 5 weeks, perhaps others are doing the same?and finally, the WHO has said that there is no evidence that antibodies give immunity, surely this undermines the "herd immunity" strategy?

Adam Tripp ● 2228d

Personally I would love the restrictions to be  eased on pubs and football BUT think these will probably be the last areas to relax. And rightly so in my opinion. There is no way you can have social distancing in a pub scenario and if you tried it wouldnt be a pub if you needed to be 6 foot away from anyone else. Football and other crowd events have worries not only  about proximity in the stadiums but also travelling on public transport to go and leaving them plus the crowds on the roads etc outside the stadia.I think it's a long time until normal and rightly so. Schools biggest problem could possibly be the inability to ensure social distancing at the school gate amongst parentsSo many little nuances in all areas that need consideration rather than simply throwing open the doors.

Andy Pike ● 2228d

Lucille. Although I'd like to see a reduction on the lockdown restrictions I'm not sure that is possible until we have an effective and coordinated programme in place to test, track, trace and, ideally, treat. That does not mean just randomly mailing around a third of the tests which may or may not be returned in as timerly manner; it means a properly planned, controlled and monitored exercise. Treatment may be limited at present but may be improved as trials of antiviral drugs progresses. Prevention is also important, so until a vaccine is available (9, 12, 18, 24 months?) isolation and quarantining using heat tests as well as biological tests could be introduced as they're the only option at present. Interestingly, South Korea had effective test, track and trace controls from the start  and did not have a mandatory, blanket, lockdown: those who had or might have the disease were quarantined others were asked to stay at home or to restrict their movements. So get an effective TTT and quarantine plan in place and then start organising an easing of the restrictions. That doesn't mean we can't start treatment for other illnesses such as cancer or cardio vascular ones now we know the lockdown has prevented the NHS from being swamped.

Michael Ixer ● 2228d

Hope you are well Lucille!I merely made those comments as you had taken another thread off topic and made accusations about people.  There is obviously a debate to be had about when and how to ease lockdown measures and perhaps this is a thread for it.  Of course there will be differing views but no need to start accusing people I only responded in kind to you as you called others selfish for supporting local businesses I thought I would see how you responded to something you were quite happy to throw at other people.Hope this can be a new thread relevant to the easing of lockdown, and I hope also that whilst may being passionate in your views you and others here are able to converse politely whilst respecting that none of us has a monopoly on the truth. Best. Mike

Mike Warman ● 2228d

Well I've heard they don't appear to be shutting down the Nottinghill Carnival.

Barbara Stevens ● 2228d

Morning LucilleI’m in favour of a gradual easing, starting from next week.  I caught a glimpse of a programme on Channel 4 during the week, where a guy discussed the financial cost of the lockdown (I didn’t catch his name.)  He referenced the 2008/2009 recession and the indirect effect this had on health - c.500k more global deaths from cancer, heart disease and suicides - describing the current choice we face as not ‘health vs the economy’ but ‘health vs health.’ I was further struck this week to hear that 60,000 people in the UK have had cancer ops / treatments postponed or cancelled since this started.  In addition, only 5,000 were diagnosed with cancer in April - 25,000 fewer than would usually be expected.  I would assume this would be similar for hearth diseases, strokes and other illnesses where early diagnosis and intervention can make all the difference Given we appear to be over the peak of this Coronavirus, I feel the greater risk now lies with maintaining the current measures, as we’re now creating bigger health issues for the future

Craig Fordham ● 2228d