Forum Topic

Benches on Putney Common

Do we really, really, really need the few benches on Putney Common festooned with red and white ribbons and large signs banning their use because of the Coronavirus lockdown? No, we really, really, really don’t. Walking today in Wandsworth Park and through Fulham Palace gardens it was noticeable that the benches there have no such restrictions.I understand that preventing gatherings is necessary. But small two or three seat benches on the Common do not threaten the peace. Come on, Simon Lee, get some perspective. Many of my neighbours are elderly and go for a short walk on to the Common for exercise every day. They usually use the benches for a few minutes to catch their breath, then come home. Not any more. Everyone I’ve passed has been courteous and friendly, being careful to keep their 2m distance. I have seen no picnics, massed meetings of out of control teenagers, or unfortunate congregations of old age pensioners. Maybe in Wimbledon things are different, but I doubt it.We do not need this ridiculous application of an unnecessary interference in the way we use our Common. Conservators, take note.Nick  

Nicholas Evans ● 2181d51 Comments

A discussion on Radio 4’s PM suggests that pub’s with gardens may be allowed to open their beer gardens - on a socially distanced model.  Czech Republic beer gardens are planned to reopen from 25 May.The WPCC continue to ban sitting on the common’s benches, as CV is able  to survive on wood.  The WPCC make the case for their stance based on the scientific evidence, quoting it on their website. Presumably until Covid-19 is completely defeated, ie with a vaccine, the Spencer’s benches will be a memory.

John Cameron ● 2161d

Without entering into the argument about this, it's interesting that in an apparently deserted Kensington Palace Gardens, which is normally teeming with people, there seems no such taping off of benches, judging by this picture that a friend sent me today:

Richard Carter ● 2173d

I’m more concerned about my elderly neighbours not having places to rest during their short walks for exercise on the Common. Teenagers will just ignore the tape or rip it off.I think the following advice regarding the possibility of the virus lurking outdoors is apposite:Prof John Edmunds, from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, explains there were three ways that the virus may be transmitted:- Touching an infected surface and then your face with unwashed hands- From tiny particles that stay suspended in the air (aerosols)- From larger droplets that quickly fall to the ground - the particles in both cases coming from coughing and sneezing, for example"The first two of these routes would be reduced to virtually zero out of doors," he said. "You are much less likely to touch an infected surface, and suspended particles will be massively diluted by the fresh air."Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2173d

Time will tell whether taping up the benches is unnecessary.  And there was I thinking that those starting to get stir-crazy that we should be worried about was the teenagers!

Philippa Bond ● 2174d

Time  for us  over-70s to stage  a riot then Barbara. No way am I staying in lockdown for 18 months! Mind you I believe the Daily Express as much as I believe the Daily Mail so take heart, it's probably all just a wind up to get us to buy/read their papers.

Lucille Grant ● 2174d

Never mind about seating, if your over 70 they want us to be in lock down for 18mnths. Otherwise our children will feel so guilty for giving us the virus. Never mind where it came from in the first place. Yesterday's Daily Express.

Barbara Stevens ● 2174d

Both are different examples of incompetence and arrogance combined.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2174d

I don't see a correlation between trust and taping of benches.

Andy Pike ● 2174d

The point about Lee and the majority of WPCC trustees over years is that they are untrustworthy. The unnecessary taping closure of the benches is just the most recent example.I’ve just had an unfortunate letter from Mrs Diane Neil Mills in which she spouts a lot of nonsense and among other things says that as a past Trustee I should not criticise them. Why on earth not?The Charity Commission have told me that following a legal challenge to their “final report” (it is in fact version three and considerably different from the one they circulated a year ago) they expect to publish at the end of this month. I make that just eight working days from now. My solicitors have asked a number of serious questions about the changes, and await a reply.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2174d

Agreed Jane.There are many other places showing similar caution. We'll probably never know who is right on this whereas other issues will be proven one way or the other when we see the report that former trustees have been privy to.

Andy Pike ● 2174d

That's exactly the point. The under sale of land and property, while undoubtedly true, is a totally separate issue from the taping of the benches. Seems the worst you can accuse Lee of in this case is being over cautious. There are plenty of benches on Barnes Common and round Barnes Pond where you can sit. Saw several people doing so yesterday.

Jane Carter ● 2174d

@ AndyI don't need Lee's taping of the benches (ignoring guidance now provided by the CPS) as an excuse to criticise him.  The deliberate and sustained lies to the Charity Commission, trustees and levy payers by Lee and the trustees over their undersale of land and property by the WPCC are a subject in their own right.

John Cameron ● 2174d

Jonathan, we often go on that walk too. Then down the embankment at Barnes towards the Leg of Mutton, sometimes returning via Hammersmith Bridge back along the embankment. Lovely.The only open space en route with closed benches is Putney Common. Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2174d

Bunny, absolutely agree with you. We went for a walk on Barnes and Putney Commons and it was just delightful. Very few folk around and lovely and warm once you were out of that stiff breeze. And SOOO quiet!

Jonathan Callaway ● 2175d

Another beautiful day.  Went out for a bike ride from Horne Way, up Sefton St and then along the path to Barnes Common.  Not at all busy.  Got to Barnes, did a quick shop at Barnes Sainsbury Local, 3 of us outside distancing, quick shop inside, back on the bike and took some pics of Barnes Pond looking gorgeous.  Relax everyone, this is the most beautiful time of the year, go for a walk and enjoy xx

Bunny Payne ● 2175d

How on earth could you legislate for folk to only exercise once a day unless you had a copper outside every house  for 24 hours ? I do think people are trying to find fault for the sake of it or to take a cheap shot in their personal campaign against Lee.Let's hope we all stay safe and well whether we choose to accept or ignore well intentioned advice

Andy Pike ● 2175d

There is no tape on the benches in Wandsworth Park, or on the parks in Hammersmith and Fulham. Yesterday I saw numerous Londoners sitting on benches, Met police walking past them and completely ignoring them. People understand the guidance on how to behave. No one make them sit on the benches. The WPCC are making up the rules, rather than enforcing the official guidance which states...“The government’s priority is to save lives and the best way to protect yourself and others from illness is to stay at home.However, exercise is still important for people’s physical and mental wellbeing, so the government has said people can leave their homes for exercise once a day.Please use the following guidance in order to stay safe:stay local and use open spaces near to your home where possible – do not travel unnecessarilyyou should only go outside alone or with members of your own household keep at least 2 metres apart from anyone outside your household at all timesgatherings of more than two in parks or other public spaces have been banned and the police will enforce thisif you have a garden, make use of the space for exercise and fresh air take hygiene precautions when you are outside, and wash your hands as soon as you are back indoorsif walking your dog in areas used by other people, you should walk your dog on a lead to ensure you can safely keep 2 metres away from others” https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-guidance-on-access-to-green-spaces

John Cameron ● 2175d

What you don't have to stay at home if you are homeless?  I'm gobsmacked!Nick, I'm sorry to be so harsh and I realise that there is a big problem with power and the Commons not being as accessible as they should be to everyone etc but I think that at least if there is tape there it is a reminder that there is a Coronavirus problem right now and it is most dangerous to those who are likely to want to sit on the benches.  A reminder to take care even if you do decide to ignore it.  We have seen the police moving people on in the parks who are sitting on benches.  It is easy to try and pretend the situation isn't as bad as it is because I'm sure we'd all love to find that the horrible bits of this are just a bad dream.

Philippa Bond ● 2175d

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200317-covid-19-how-long-does-the-coronavirus-last-on-surfacesThis isn't the first coronavirus of recent years and there is some evidence that it hangs around on surfaces.Are you changing your shoes when you get home?Why do you think that in other countries they are spraying streets?  Govt here takes little action and can't even get our medical staff enough and adequate PPE or sort out social care.

Philippa Bond ● 2175d

Unfortunately, although the original a stay at home guidance may have made good sense it wasn't backed up by the restrictions in the legislation. If the government wants everyone to exercise only once a day that should have been written into the legislation; it wasn't so it's not enfoceable even if most people think it's sensible. Anyway, if someone has a physical problem they might argue its more resonabke to have two short spells of exercise rather than one longer one so that they can recover between the bouts if exercise? Until there's some case law we won't know what's considered reasonable in many cases. Still, the regulations do say if you're homeless you don't have to stay at home ...

Michael Ixer ● 2175d

Maybe the WPCC Rangers should be equipped with large bottles of disinfectant on their buggies and spray the benches from time to time. More effective than the ribbon barriers that everyone is ignoring or removing.Liberate the benches!N.

Nicholas Evans ● 2175d

Certainty replaced by confusion! I can imagine the nit-picking responses police will be faced with, about how long is a 'rest' and what constitutes a 'snack'.  It was pretty straightforward before - if you weren't moving under your own power, then you should be, or you should STAY AT HOME.

Peter Evans ● 2175d

New police guidelines issued on lockdown rules and 'reasonable' reasons to leave homeGuidance produced by Crown Prosecution Service aims to end confusion over what police can and cannot enforce in lockdownBy Charles Hymas, HOME AFFAIRS EDITOR 17 April 2020 The guidance, which appears to contradict some officers' interpretation of the law, also says people can exercise more than once a day and stop to rest or have lunch on a park bench provided they are on a "long" walk.

John Cameron ● 2175d

From the WHO information https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses#:~:text=It%20is%20not%20certain%20how,up%20to%20several%20days.
It is not certain how long the virus that causes COVID-19 survives on surfaces, but it seems to behave like other coronaviruses. Studies suggest that coronaviruses (including preliminary information on the COVID-19 virus) may persist on surfaces for a few hours or up to several days. This may vary under different conditions (e.g. type of surface, temperature or humidity of the environment).If you think a surface may be infected, clean it with simple disinfectant to kill the virus and protect yourself and others. Clean your hands with an alcohol-based hand rub or wash them with soap and water. Avoid touching your eyes, mouth, or nose.

Michael Ixer ● 2175d

How many days does this virus last on different surfaces?  Or hours - do we have more definitive info now?

Philippa Bond ● 2175d

Was there any outcome on the pub bench/tables on Putney Common?Do they migrate for winter and will they be returning in the coming months (assuming the pub survives!)

Ed Robinson ● 2176d

No David just driving past having delivered some meds

Andy Pike ● 2176d

"Clapham Common all taped up"I trust that you did not cross over the border into the L.B. Lambeth zone of the Common?!

David Ainsworth ● 2176d

Clapham Common all taped up

Andy Pike ● 2176d

There are many hundreds of benches in Hyde Park and Kensington Gardens, none are taped off.They are being used by visitors, who are sensibly respecting social distancing in doing so.

John Cameron ● 2176d

A better use for Rangers’ time would be to just walk around the Common asking people who are gathering to keep their distance. In a polite way, of course. Very few public benches are being treated with tape in public parks, and the double standards applied by Mr Lee are par for the course I’m afraid. He likes being bossy. He tried bullying me and John Cameron and failed.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2176d

Wont be long before benches become the new red route parking bays.No sitting for longer than 20mins mo return within 24 hours

Ed Robinson ● 2176d

Fundamentally different questions.

David Ainsworth ● 2176d

Agree. I was on Putney Common this morning at about 9.00 and met - at a safe distance -the poor man whose job it is to put the tape around the benches. He said that he had put tape on 26 benches yesterday and the tape had all been taken off. He had phoned Simon Leigh to ask whether he should continue to replace the tape and was told he should. Really don't people have greater worries than obsessing about taped benches when the tape is there to protect us? It's somewhat ironic, as Bunny suggests, that the same people who took such exception to the Spencer benches should be complaining about not being able to sit on the benches on the common and Heath.

Jane Carter ● 2176d

Be fair. Let us suppose that Captain Thomas Moore wanted to do one of his fundraising walks on the Common, he would probably be grateful for a tape-free bench upon which to rest at some appropriate interval. We should not deny him that facility, should we?

David Ainsworth ● 2176d

Its disgraceful 20,000+ people dead from this virus. The biggest health issue we have ever had and the country is skint 2m people unemployed but the big issue for putney folk is a handful of taped off benches.Yeh we surely are all in this together.

Andy Pike ● 2176d

It's really disappointing when you've been on a long walk and feel like a little rest before you head back.  :(

Philippa Bond ● 2176d

So I'm guessing no Spencer Benches, the knockon for the virus is endless, I wonder where it will end.Cue for all the Putney Common/Spencer bench haters . . (couldn't resist).

Bunny Payne ● 2176d

Unfortunately you sometimes see those pesky sweaty joggers and heavy exercisers using benches as part of their exercise routine and dripping all over them.

Philippa Bond ● 2178d

Denzil,I see that Mr Lee has expanded the “guidance” to also dictate that WPCC Trustees (also called Conservators) are restrained. He’s sneaked in the following justification for keeping them on a short lead. It goes as follows: “Given the persistently high numbers of visitors to Wimbledon and Putney Commons, all areas are now being used by other people, even those areas that are normally quiet.  Therefore we ask that all Trustees are kept on leads everywhere on the Commons.”Keep safe,Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2179d

I have yet to see one being used on the common. But I did see a couple of cyclists out this morning who had folding chairs that they took off the side of their luggage racks and then sat in to do a spot of reading. I was impressed by their ingenuity.Denzil

Denzil Darby ● 2179d

Nick,The same thought about fallen trees being used as seating struck me. I agree it is nonsense and so are the signs advocating, [or is it dictating?] that dogs be kept on a lead at all times. The WPCC website states that this is on Government advice. Yet, the Govt. do not actually advise that. Only, if one is likely to not be able to keep the two metre distance. I suggest that applies to very few places on the common. I am of the opinion that the likelihood of catching the SARS2 -COV 19 virus from the benches is small. The best way to protect ourselves is to maintain good hygiene. Wash hands & wrists properly. Refrain from touching one's face until that task has been done.Nice choice of tune for hand-washing.Stay safe and enjoy your daily exercise.Denzil

Denzil Darby ● 2179d

Has nobody heard of a shooting stick? :)

Simon Knight ● 2180d

I’ve just returned from a walk which included Putney Heath - none of the many benches are covered in tape / WPCC signage. Nor are WBC’s numerous benches, or those on Barnes Common

John Cameron ● 2180d

I think it's jobsworthy and mean.  Over the past couple of months I have never seen more than one person on a bench, but I don't go out at dusk, so don't know if the 'youth' are congregating??

Bunny Payne ● 2180d

Denzil,Ever since my wife painted the staircase railings yellow I’ve chosen “We all live in a yellow submarine” while washing my hands. But I digress.The ridiculousness of the random closing down of benches was brought home to me when I noticed that one nearby be-ribboned bench was only about 40 metres from the carefully placed tree trunk which is used for sitting. It was put there specifically for that reason. The question must be asked (and scientifically answered) does the Covid19 virus last as long on the log as it does on the bench? Can we expect Mr Lee and his Rangers to start testing all wild seating? Where will it end?Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2181d

In the future I foresee sad lonely single benches

Ed Robinson ● 2181d

P.S. I forgot to add that the benches on Wimbledon Common have also been taped off. I'm lucky enough to take my daily exercise and dog walk here.

Denzil Darby ● 2181d

It is indeed ridiculous. I'm not defending them being taped off, but the reason given on the WPCC website is the possibility of picking up the SARS2-COV19 virus. Initially I thought, what a crock... but it would seem that the virus can survive on wood for several hours. I still reckon the chances of getting it from the benches is minimal. Especially if good personal hygiene standards are adhered to. Personally I wash my hands to the tune of Hunting Tigers in India by the Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band. Best wishes to all and keep safe.

Denzil Darby ● 2181d

People seem to be using the benches in the church grounds and the benches on the cricket ground side of the road. Both of these areas are probably outwith the control of the Conservators.

Katrina Black ● 2181d

I absolutely agree with you Nick.  I sometime park my derriere on a bench to catch my breath, making sure that I don't touch the wood and trust I don't get an infected bottom!!  Lots of people do similar and nobody EVER shares a bench these days.  All very genteel and polite.

Bunny Payne ● 2181d