Forum Topic

Is It Time Now For A Total Lockdown?

Yes, I think it is. Hoping, and expecting Boris to announce this very soon.

Sue Hammond ● 2425d72 Comments

Judging by what looks like the complete failure of the voluntary social distancing measures on Putney High Street yesterday, I would agree.

Richard Carter ● 2425d

Read somewhere the comment.Our parents and grandparents were asked to fight a war and put up with considerable hardship. Whereas we are being asked to stay home and wash our hands . Doesn't take a lot of working out .

Andy Pike ● 2425d

Yes, and the difference is that during the war if one ignored advice it was usually only one's own life at risk,  whereas with the current situation it's others' lives at risk. A stricter lockdown seems the only answer, although some still need to go out for own and other people's provisions and medicines. Still, comments from people like Tim Martin like this don't help. https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-wetherspoons-boss-says-over-the-top-to-shut-pubs-11960778I wonder why number 10 didn't slap him down? Free speech is fine; ignorance and stupidity needs correcting. Still, Tim Martin's brother called him evil on a friend's Facebook post (not public, friends only). Not sure I'd go that far, but I assume there's not much  brotherly love list there!

Michael Ixer ● 2425d

Britain's first night on lockdown: Drinkers stay at home on Saturday.https://mol.im/a/8139423But not in London!🤬

Sue Hammond ● 2425d

Just driven by Wandsworth Park, it's packed with folk playing football, rugby and hanging out.  The whole situation isn't been taken anywhere near seriously enough and people aren't scared enough. Liberal democracy and hoping people doing the right thing doesn't work so compulsory lockdown is required now to stop hundreds of thousands more unnecessary deaths

Neil Moulding ● 2425d

It seems that it's predominantly younger people who are ignoring the social distancing advice. Unfortunately this is typical of the current me me generation.  They have been encouraged by social media to believe they are the important ones in our society and are entitled to do as they want; sod everybody else, especially the elderly. They will regret their selfish actions if they lose a parent or grandparent to this dreadful epidemic.

Sue Hammond ● 2425d

Not sure if is just the young having seen the reports from snowdonia yesterday.  Cant understand why they havnt forced the bookies to close . I like a bet myself but not at the risk of my life and the counters and slot machines are a haven for germs at the best of times

Andy Pike ● 2425d

Plenty of evidence the old are just as bad if not worse from what I’m seeing and hearing. Lots of people complaining that their elderly parents are swanning around as if nothing’s happening. Would that qualify as selfish too? I think it certainly does. Just as much ‘me generation’ in my opinion.

Freddie Francis ● 2425d

I agree Freddie. It spans the generations although  there are more under 70s I suspect than over 70s ignoring the requests to stay at home/ social distance.

Lucille Grant ● 2425d

@AndyHow about placing a bet online? Is that possible?

Sue Hammond ● 2425d

@lucille. Larger numbers of the younger share of the population may well be ignoring advice but given the over 70s’ vulnerability to the virus and extensive advice to isolate, that generation seem to be behaving in a much more stupidly blasé manner.

Freddie Francis ● 2425d

SueIt is and many do. Personally I prefer not to get into that . A friend got in severe financial difficulties through on line gambling. He said there is something about handing over cash that makes you think twice whereas tapping a button on line is too easy. I think you need a greater will power on line and I will not take that risk. But when this is all over I'll be in funds for racedays out.

Andy Pike ● 2425d

Yes Andy I can see how online gambling could easily get out of hand, it's too easy and not quite real, until it's too late. You can look forward to race days and I'll look forward to the tennis tournaments starting again. When this $#|¥ is all over ...🙏🏻

Sue Hammond ● 2425d

I wonder. Is is the government communications? I suspect those of us on this forum are getting news from various sources: BBC, Sky, ITN, various news websites, social media news feeds. So we're pretty clued up on the situation. Are those rushing about with busy lives getting the message? OK, if one works for a big corporate, they were banning non essential travel 3 weeks ago, but they were looking at guidance globally (for example, Italy, Korea, Japan, etc), not just the UK or US. If one works in the "gig economy" what is one's employers going to tell you; presumably, Deliveroo, Uber, Hermes, etc still want people working so will that dilute tged message? Until, the last week there seemed to be a complacency in the UK's message; only a couple of weeks ago the ExCel conference center was still quite busy ... it's only in the last week the message has been ramped up, perhaps some have missed others have heard it but not really taken it in? Just asking the question, I may be completely off target.

Michael Ixer ● 2425d

May I still go cycling please? I am quite anti-social and distant, nay, aloof.

David Ainsworth ● 2425d

Think the betting offices shut.

Barbara Stevens ● 2424d

Yes they are now. Thankfully

Andy Pike ● 2424d

Yes, but keep off the pavements. 😉

Sue Hammond ● 2424d

If (when!) the further measures are taken I wonder whether they should be implemented differently across the country. Perhaps not so necessary for those living in rural communities who can go for a walk and not see a single person.  I wonder how it would be enforced outside London - drones perhaps as I can't see there being enough army/police to patrol tiny hamlets. London is of course a different kettle of fish and perhaps what is needed in London isn't needed elsewhere?

John Geoffries ● 2424d

Yes, yes and yes. Before Easter. By then the death rate will be at the Italian level and Londoners will be driving across Britain taking the virus to every corner. It is like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Michael Winstanley ● 2424d

Seems illogical to talk of total lockdown when there is not the PPE equipment nor tests available to health and social workers.

Ed Robinson ● 2424d

Total lockdown has to be implemented. Sooner the better. This has little to do with not enough equipment or availability of tests.What is not generally spoken about is the reason that the ICUs are overloaded is because it takes weeks to get this virus under control when in hospital. There is NO quick fix if you are seriously ill with it. That was published on the French news channels yesterday.#stayathome people please.

Lucille Grant ● 2424d

Not  enough equipment or availability of tests is a good reason FOR a total lockdown?

Jane Carter ● 2424d

I hope when they say lockdown, we can still walk on the Common.  There were hardly any people about today and easy to keep 6ft apart, same with the towpath.  Nice to get some fresh air and sunshine after a week indoors doing nothing.

Bunny Payne ● 2424d

Bunny, I think lockdown means precisely that. You stay indoors unless for food shopping etc.It doesn't suit me but if it takes lockdown so crush this then so be it.

Simon Knight ● 2424d

Yes I'm told that wimbledon common was mobbed over the weekend. Suppose if it's a lockdown the car parks will be kept locked but how the handful of rangers will police the open ground will prove difficult.  But overall I think lockdown is probably the only way if people will not be sensible.

Andy Pike ● 2424d

They had a real security guard in Sainsbury's lunch time I got a chicken , pork chops, and sausages. He had a mask and I asked him if he had had much trouble a bit he said. I think the staff need some praise for continually working. My eye's nearly popped out when I saw meat and two veg. Then I sat in the garden and had a wine. Hic.

Barbara Stevens ● 2424d

"My eye's nearly popped out when I saw meat and two veg."No wonder the security guard wore a mask.Above and beyond!

David Ainsworth ● 2424d

Wimbledon Common at 4pm Sunday wasn't too bad. There were families (kids/parents) cycling around/kicking a football/walking with dogs but what do you expect.

Gabrielle O'Mahoney ● 2423d

Simon, I agree, needs must, if it's the only way (which it appears to be) to minimise the impact of this virus. 

Michael Ixer ● 2423d

Social distancing in the Tube today (I didn't take it, it was filched from the Telegraph):

Richard Carter ● 2423d

It’s time for total lockdown alongside the massively ramped up testing the government has been promising but not (yet) delivering.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2423d

Thanks for the  laugh, David!

Lucille Grant ● 2423d

'What do you expect' - Seriously? How far apart were they from each other? What part of social distancing don't you understand?It's attitudes like theirs and yours  that will mean everyone will be ordered to self isolate in the near future and only be  able to go out for limited periods to buy food and medicines.

Lucille Grant ● 2423d

Maybe the Mayor needs to rethink the reductions in service alongside a lockdown for non essential travel/ workers

Andy Pike ● 2423d

"It's being so cheerful as keeps me going."(Catchphrase from Mona Lott, a depressed laundrywoman in ITMA).

David Ainsworth ● 2423d

Because its one family being close to each other. They'd be close to each other if they went in their garden or just stayed in their house! So in that reason I don't see why they can't be outside. If families are meeting up from separate households then you have an issue.

Gabrielle O'Mahoney ● 2423d

Gabrielle, I do not think it is because one family kept close to each other, perhaps not a good idea but understandable.  What we saw on the news in Richmond Park was shocking.  Individuals not respecting social distance!  This is too serious a virus to treat it with contempt.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2423d

OK then Sue?

David Ainsworth ● 2423d

But it is not total lockdown — I understand BJ wants us to stay at home — he has restricted the shops that may continue to operate.  But he did not say lockdown....  He said buy food online — would love to if I could actually access the websites!!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2423d

Yes. The only way.

Sue Hammond ● 2423d

It isn't a total  lockdown as it's not being patrolled. Most of the idiots who fled to their holiday homes or who thought it was a Bank Holiday at the weekend will probably still carry on doing as they like.

Lucille Grant ● 2423d

I agree Lucille, it is not la lockdown — just a PM trying to use strong words — and not succeeding.  Unfortunately, the idiots will continue to behave as such.  Desperately sad and very worrying!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2423d

The police are patrolling it

Gabrielle O'Mahoney ● 2423d

Gabrielle, what are the police going to patrol?  More than two people getting together? What does this mean, particularly for families of 4 cycling together in Richmond Park?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2423d

We don't have enough police Gabrielle. And how are they going to monitor it? In France you have to produce a notice every time you go out and tick box the specific reason you are out, and of course show ID.

Lucille Grant ● 2423d

I would assume husband wife two kids won’t get stopped. Four 26 year olds will - if ID is same address fine if they’re not they get a fine or asked to go home.  They can’t police every corner agreed but richmond Park/wandsworth Park/Wimbledon common they could

Gabrielle O'Mahoney ● 2423d

Gabrielle. One problem is there is no legal requirement to carry ID in the UK: people don't have ID cards in the UK. WWII was the last time such a requirement was made in the UK. I heard a report that there was some concern in thee police force about the practicalities of policing this. I suspect in practice they will just break up large groups or warn people not keeping an adequate distance from each other. Still, let's see what happens.

Michael Ixer ● 2423d

I expect some fool (or fools) will see this photo in The Times today and complain that The Deep State is taking over...

Richard Carter ● 2423d

I've been out 3 times today.Once to pick up my prescription from Putney Mead. Only 3 people allowed into pharmacy at a time and 2 meter rule being observed.Then to Asda for food. Again 2 mtr rule observed.Then for a stroll on Barnes Common. Saw a few couples (some with dogs).So far people seem to be adhering.Not seen a single policeman.

Simon Knight ● 2423d

But sounds like London's public transport still has issues ...https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-london-tube-underground-nhs-lockdown-uk-boris-johnson-a9420326.html

Michael Ixer ● 2423d

Yes, and I don't see how that can easily be addressed.Assuming all public transport travellers are key workers and need to be at a certain place by a certain time and tubes have been cut back then of course the tube will be crowded.

Simon Knight ● 2423d

Usage down 80% yet tubes still packed. Suggests the service reductions were too severe. Time to re instate some of the services and I dont believe that cant be done due to sickness as driver friends of mine are not sick but are on reduced hours.

Andy Pike ● 2423d

Stupid decision by Khan. He should have left tubes during peak hours running normally so people can distance themselves, and instead he should have heavily reduced off peak tubes when the majority of key workers and others would not be travelling.

Mike Essam ● 2423d

@Andy and MikeSpot on.  Khan's rash knee-jerk action will greatly increased the number of people contracting the virus.  Virtue signalling fool.🤬

Sue Hammond ● 2423d

Khan's not my cup of tea however we must remember:1) lock down has only officially stated today and there is still confusion.2) The mayor was excluded from the Cobra meetings until recently. Whatever your political opinion that was just daft!

Ed Robinson ● 2423d

Ed yes it was but I can see why. Just dont like his excuses "can't change cos they are sick" or last nights when challenged " the government told tfl to do it".For once own up and say "yeh we had the best of intentions but went too far too quick but we have learnt and are reinstating x%"

Andy Pike ● 2423d

@Ed Whether Khan was included in Cobra meetings or not is largely irrelevant in this instance. It doesn't take a genius to work out that with less trains running the overcrowding in those that are, would be horrendous. It's all very well Khan spouting that only key workers should be using the tube but unless they are identified by showing proof when entering the station it's obvious that the strategy isn't going to work.

Sue Hammond ● 2423d

"It's all very well Khan spouting that only key workers should be using the tube but unless they are identified by showing proof when entering the station it's obvious that the strategy isn't going to work."These people wouldn't crowd onto the Tube to go to their work if they were temporarily laid off by their employers.

David Ainsworth ● 2423d

Agreed David But I still think TFL cut too many services too quickly .

Andy Pike ● 2423d

"Just dont like his excuses "can't change cos they are sick" or last nights when challenged " the government told tfl to do it"."Did the government not tell TFL to do it then? If they did should TFL not have co-operated?

David Ainsworth ● 2423d

It really depends if TFL were told by the government that only key workers would need transportation.Ideally we would see the governments predicted numbers of key workers are and compared that to actual numbers. Fat chance of getting data from anyone. They are all making this up as they go along.Unfortunately the government has not stopped non key workers travelling.  So it that sense TFL looks out of step with that the government actually does. This is very dangerous. The message and action from government must be clear.It looks like the unions (as always) will have to take action on safety grounds to force the two bureaucratic bodies to be in step!I assume TFL will be benching some drivers in case of excessive (more than normal) sick leave - but that should be a minor reduction only.

Ed Robinson ● 2423d

"They are all making this up as they go along."They have to, in the beginning. Much as in wartime.

David Ainsworth ● 2423d

@Andy"But I still think TFL cut too many services too quickly."Just listened to Matt Hancock giving today's Downing Street briefing and he confirmed that too many trains had been cancelled and the network should be restored.  Very critical of Khan's strategy.

Sue Hammond ● 2422d

"Just listened to Matt Hancock giving today's Downing Street briefing and he confirmed that too many trains had been cancelled and the network should be restored.  Very critical of Khan's strategy."So what happened to the Johnson/Hancock lockdown policy then?Perhaps they are beginning to listen to Presdent Trump:-"at Monday's White House coronavirus news conference, the president said: "America will again and soon be open for business."In the late hours of Sunday night, Trump had vented his concerns."WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF," he tweeted, using the all-caps he reserves for matters of apparent urgency. "AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!""Or Fox:-"On Sunday evening, host (and former advisor to then-British PM David Cameron) Steve Hilton warned that an economic collapse would itself result in avoidable deaths and other hardships - that the "cure" could be worse than the "disease"."Our ruling class and their TV mouthpieces whipping up fear over this virus, they can afford an indefinite shutdown," Hilton said. "Working Americans can't. They'll be crushed by it.""

David Ainsworth ● 2422d

Agree Sue, I've just heard Gove say they are trying to put pressure on Khan to run more trains in the peaks.Khan is acting so foolishly.Hardly anyone is travelling off peak so that is fine as it is, but Khan needs to review his policy for peak times.

Mike Essam ● 2422d

"I've just heard Gove say they are trying to put pressure on Khan to run more trains in the peaks."Perhaps pressure could be applied to Johnson and Gove to implement a proper lockdown, rather than cave in? The people who flocked to the Commons and Parks en masse were blamed for it. Why not these commuters who refuse to self-isolate?

David Ainsworth ● 2422d

Joined up thinking and action is needed.Sadly it seems to be lacking at national and local government level.Looking at the guidelines just issued they still permit:Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home.

Ed Robinson ● 2422d

I agree with you.  It is shambolic.  It is all very nice to put the blame on the population (I was horrified with the news of Richmond Park being overwhelmed with people hell bent on being inches away from each other — madness!) The PM must speak clearly and decisively.  This we did not get on Sunday — are you surprised people are confused? It is also surprising that may people blame Khan on the problems with the tube and transport.  Easy target!  I do not necessarily like Khan much, but I do not think he is the originator of all the problems. If the PM and the Cabinet are not clear, why apportion blame on anybody else? As the saying goes, "the buck stops with the PM".  Let him assume this, not delegate.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2422d

Oh, by the way, why did the PM not use the total lockdown language? 

Ivonne Holliday ● 2422d

"Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home."Pretty well drives a coach and horses through, don't it?

David Ainsworth ● 2422d

Patching together a new undergound schedule combining elements from both weekday working days and also weekends may not be that simple or quick. Maybe a good computer can do it, but I leave that sort of thing to Mr Ixer.

David Ainsworth ● 2422d