Forum Topic

Scammers prog on BBC tonight

From what Forum members have posted over the years, this may interest some. On BBC1 TV Panorama tonight at 20.30.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-51660982/criminals-on-cctv-scammers-caught-red-handed"Spying on the ScammersPanoramaHundreds of thousands of people fall victim to scams in the UK every year. Many are run from criminal call centres in India, where teams of fraudsters operate around the clock. Now Panorama has obtained hacked CCTV footage from inside one scam call centre that shows exactly how it works. Reporter Rajini Vaidyanathan tracks down the man behind the crime and the British victims who have been conned."Being as, for some stupid reason, my fantasy solution of using the SAS to deliver speedy justice would never happen, I still do not see why telecoms companies can not provide solutions to this. Patterns must be visible. Perhaps they too profit from it. If we cannot stop private groups, how can we stop Russia, China and the US from such destructive intrusion?

David Ainsworth ● 1936d18 Comments

Slightly off topic, but I thought this article was quite a good summary - and that's before we get onto home areas networks used by smart meters. It did occur to me that the scammers in the Panorama programme might not have changed the factory set password on their CCTV system ...https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/08/how-to-stop-your-smart-home-spying-on-you-lightbulbs-doorbell-ring-google-assistant-alexa-privacy

Michael Ixer ● 1929d

David. With regard to your point of using the SAS I can't see that happening 🙂 but I think GCHQ is probably more relevant and active: if they get a whiff of sensitive data being stolen by a foreign agent I believe they will quietly suggest the victim organisation should engage a security company from a list of recommended ones to review their systems and security. But, yes, no one's 100% clean, at a conference a few years ago we were discussing various scams perpetrated using Western Union (I know an acquaintance of a US friend caught out by one of them) and their seemingly lax anti money laundering checks. I expressed surprise that the federal US authorities didn't crack down on WU's procedures, someone who I think probably once worked for the UK government looked at me in a rather pitying way for my naivity and asked how else I though the CIA would pay their agents in the Middle East, South America, Africa, etc ...

Michael Ixer ● 1930d

Ivonne, once again I apologise and I so understand how bruised and upset you feel.  Perhaps I was a bit too uncaring with my response.I watched the Panorama doc the other night actually showing these calls centres, where a hacker had got into their security cameras and took film of them.  I know what he did was unlawful, but it was so interesting to actually see and hear the attitudes of the people in charge "we are only interested in the bottom line, we don't give a sh1t about customers".  Horrible to see, but a lesson.  But as Ivonne says, they get more sneaky and clever every day.  Horrible people.

Bunny Payne ● 1930d

Ivonne. Please don't be too hard on yourself. I've known a senior financial risk manager fall for a scam - she was the last person I'd expected to but she and here husband were dealing with a serious family illness at the time and were just distracted; fortunately, the banks reimbursed the. (And annother collegue in risk saw the look on my face when looking at her email said "OK, goody, I've received a message saying the HMRC owe me a refund"; luckily that one didn't go any further!)  Iabd my colleages have spent a number of years trying to make people awared of the inherent security problems with email (would one transact one's financial business on a postcards?) and when I suggested a while ago that the banks' internet online payment services weren't really fit for purpose I was viewed with disdain: I feel vindicated that the banks are now updating their systems to include more rigorous payee checks. Still, if the global SWIFT interbank money transfer system can be breached we perhaps shouldn't feel too bad about the odd slip up but I know it is upsetting ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery

Michael Ixer ● 1930d

Bunny, not to worry. I must admit that your comment did hit a very raw point; as a matter of fact I feel terribly bruised still. But your comment was very understandable because I was of the same view.  But I fell to a scam thinking I was helping a friend.  You live and learn!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1930d

Ivonne, I'm so sorry this happened to you and I appreciate your honesty.  Also I have to say, the information you have given about how sophisticated these scams can be.  I do apologise if I upset you.These people are absolute unfeeling, greedy b**tards and sadly we DO have to mistrust anything that is on the phone or internet, unless we are absolutely sure.  Sending love and sympathy Ivonne x

Bunny Payne ● 1931d

Hello Bunny, With hindsight, we are all very wise — always. My friend did not fall prey to a scam, I did.  We were having a chat on Messenger, a very normal and friendly chat.  I asked her about her daughter, her family, work, etc.  The responses were very much hers, her expression and sense of humour even.  There was nothing in that exchange that made me think there was anything untoward, let alone speaking to a stranger.  When the police came to see me, they did not bat an eyelid when I repeated the sequence of events.  They said the scammers were becoming more sophisticated by the day, almost "professional".  They even said everybody was going to fall for a scam, sooner or later, regardless of how careful one was. This has made me mistrust everybody.  Very sad when considering friends but, mistrust I do.  Sadly.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1931d

Just had a call this morning telling me my contract has run out, BT will be cutting me off press 1 or 2. I rang 151 and I'm not getting cut off just another scam.

Barbara Stevens ● 1931d

Ivonne, I am so sorry that your friend fell prey to a scam, but I have to ask, why would she accept advice from a PM on Facebook.  If you don't know who the person is, don't trust them.  You wouldn't accept advice from a random stranger in the street.If I can be bothered and don't just put the phone down or delete the email, I sometimes say something stupid like "I don't have a computer" when I'm obviously on one.  Same with the phone, just say I don't have the internet, they soon bang the phone down.

Bunny Payne ● 1933d

From memory, I thought the programme said they needed a complaint from a victim. Presumably the BBC can help facilitate some complaints now the victims and scammers have been identified?

Michael Ixer ● 1933d

"Indian police say it is a difficult crime to prosecute because all of the victims are overseas, and they need evidence from victims in order to bring charges."They should employ some of their local computer experts. There is this thing called the Internet.

David Ainsworth ● 1933d

An interesting development: scam call centre featured in Panorama raided by police and owner in custody ...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51740214

Michael Ixer ● 1934d

Thank's Andy I will remember that one. I seem to be told their ringing from Reading, Warwick, Warwick was a telephone area code for Portsmouth and Southampton. Or Big Ben.

Barbara Stevens ● 1935d

The normal giveaway is an Indian accent and a name like Charles or Graham and the like. I usually ask what the weathers like in Delhi and they hang up .

Andy Pike ● 1936d

Bunny, with all respect, all scams do not come with badly spoken English, unsolicited emails with bad spelling and/or grammar, begging or demanding a signature for a monetary scheme. A friend of mine asked for help with the payment of a bill, through a PM on FB. I fell, hook, line and stinker, to a scam last week that has left me "bruised" beyond belief.  All is well that ends well, thank goodness.  But it is all not so obvious as you describe.  Some scammers are so incredibly but so incredibly good, there is no reason to doubt them.  Frightening?  Beyond belief!!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1936d

Bunny, I'd agree with you regarding many scams. However, having watched the Panorama programme I was interested in the business like way these scam call centres were run - really like a spin off of the legitimate call centres. They showed a planning meeting for a new scam and they were operating from modern looking office complexes not dingy basements or back rooms. In my experience most educated Indians speak very good English and have excellent IT skill - the people shown in the programme sounded very credible to someone not "computer savvy", to quote one victim. (There's a reason UK and US companies use Indian call centres and software companies.) To be honest, the call centre featured looked more professional than some legitimate UK IT businesses I've seen! I'm not defending them but I'm not surprised they're successful. Must admit I hadn't realised the scale of the problem - it definitely requires more international cooperation across police and financial services to stop it.

Michael Ixer ● 1936d

With the greatest respect, if you can spot a) people who can barely speak English on the phone;b) unsolicited emails with the most awful spelling and grammar;c) have an ear for begging and sob stories; andd) never give money or sign up to any monetary scheme at the door or in the street,you should be OK :)

Bunny Payne ● 1936d

Thanks for the heads up, David

Michael Ixer ● 1936d