Forum Topic

At what point will Labour ever get power...

...and how and why?Not a rhetorical question.

Simon Knight ● 2523d18 Comments

"At what point will Labour ever get power... and how and why?"As Harold Macmillan probably never said:-'Events, dear boy, events'.------------------------------"It's a long lane that has no turning".

David Ainsworth ● 2523d

Wasn't looking for internet quotes (we can all do that!)...more original thoughts and input. Thanks.

Simon Knight ● 2523d

"Wasn't looking for internet quotes (we can all do that!)...more original thoughts and input. Thanks."It takes original thinking to find an apposite quote. We can't all find an internet quote if we don't know of its existence, can we?

David Ainsworth ● 2523d

The million dollar question. If it's as long as after Thatcher's first victory one wonders if one will see it in one's lifetime, assuming it ever happens. I go to a number of astronomy conferences and seminars, at the BAA annual Winchester conference last year their was a lecture about a planetary mission in planning that would return data until sometime in the 2030s. The BAA member chairing the meeting (a similar vintage to me) said he wondered how many of us there would see that data, I feel the same way about this topic.

Michael Ixer ● 2523d

A number of thoughts occur to me  in trying to answer your question.1) I think the Labour Party will need to re-build under a new leader. If they pick the right person, such as Jess Phillips, then this might happen more quickly than is suggested in the print  media, which is biased.2) Boris’s Brexit deal will unravel quite quickly. To look at how this might happen look at Sir Ivan Rogers Edinburgh lecture. https://policyscotland.gla.ac.uk/blog-sir-ivan-rogers-speech-text-in-full/3) When the problems become more obvious the Conservative party will start to fight each other. ERG versus the “one-nation” Conservatives, 4) The “Red Wall” previously Labour supporters will feel betrayed quite quickly as the promised NHS improvements do not happen. They will take their votes back and and give them to a Labour Party they can relate to. Remember the election was lost by Corbyn because people did not trust he could deliver on his manifesto promises. Not because  they disliked the policies themselves.5) It is quite possible that the fixed term parliament Act will be repealed. When Boris starts to lie to his own side he will be sacked. This is inevitable. The answer to your question? Perhaps it will take five years, but it could happen a great deal sooner.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2523d

Some  good points there, Nick.

Lucille Grant ● 2523d

Yes, sensible points, Nick, but I fear it will be at least another election or two before that all happens, or am I too pessimistic?

Michael Ixer ● 2523d

"I think the Labour Party will need to re-build under a new leader. If they pick the right person, such as Jess Phillips, then this might happen more quickly than is suggested in the print  media, which is biased."I am not a party member, but from the outside Labour looks deeply fractured and like a party that will take a long time to reunite. I think that there will be a lot of anger and blame in all directions. Perhaps there will need to be a permanent split. It has been an unstable coalition for these last 4 years. Possibly irreconcilable.

David Ainsworth ● 2523d

Due to FPTP the battleground of UK politics is the middle-class, middle-aged.  If Labour can convince them that they're worth their vote (as New Labour did), then it's possible.  Right now, however, Labour hates this segment

Craig Fordham ● 2523d

Perhaps it's me but I don't see Jess as a unifying figure.Caroline Flint's interview had some hard truths about appealing to voters in the constituencies that were lost. It needs to be someone that can connect with towns as well as cities.I shall have to catch up on some of the non leader TV debates that I missed.

Ed Robinson ● 2522d

The 1970s demonstrated what a union controlled Labour Party can accomplish, and the nation is unlikely to vote for more of the same. Reduce the power of the public sector unions within the party and you may stand a chance of governing again.The Labour leadership will however go to union puppet Long Bailey as the Corbyn continuity candidate for more years in the wilderness.

Stephen Walker ● 2522d

Interesting article by John Harris link below.Some policies will see an increase in the size of the state such as policing. I for one do not want private police forces. And outsourcing baliffs with the power to arrest worries me.But many other policies need not increase the size of the state. More thought and imagination is needed on the implementation of policies.Modernisation is desperately needed throughout the country. I hope that Boris just doesn't sit back for a decade as he did when he was Mayor!Who knows he may be a PM that builds real bridges, if so a working one from Barnes to Putney would be nice!https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/15/labour-revival-change-community-activists-plymouth

Ed Robinson ● 2522d

"Perhaps it's me but I don't see Jess as a unifying figure."Neither do I. She will doubtless have a sizeable group of supporters, but I do not think that her support will be broadly based.

David Ainsworth ● 2522d

The Labour Party has been divided for some time, with a significant number of MPs wanting to bring Corbyn down, despite him being overwhelming elected by the Party membership, and now they've finally got a result. It's ironic that many of them lost their seats this time round, perhaps because they helped fuel the lack of confidence in the Party that many voters expressed. 'If you don't support Jeremy Corbyn, why should I?'  As for the future, the dilemma remains - to move towards our 'leave' supporters and alienate our 'remainers' or do the opposite. Or to hope that, once Brexit is no longer such a dominating factor, as Johnson intentionally made it, and the Tories begin to struggle to live up to expectations, voters will return to support Labour policies that will so clearly improve their lives and communities.

Peter Evans ● 2522d

I very rarely respond to anything political on this site as i know that it can get quite heated and my personal political views are not to everyone's taste.  However on this occasion i am making an exception.  I was in the question time audience on Thursday night, Stephen Kinnock spoke brilliantly and said the future of Labour is very much in its own hands.  If they continue down this left path and elect someone like Angela Raynor or Rebecca Long-Bailey they will be out of power for the next 15 years.  If they however slide back to the centre and elect a left-centre leader they stand a chance in 5 years time.  He did add that the stronghold that momentum and the trade unions have on the party it is very unlikely that a moderate will be elected.  A member of the audience added that if you take out the Blair elections when the party was in the centre and not on the far left they have not won an election for over 50 years.  That leads me on to our new Labour MP for Putney.  I do feel for her as she has already been ostracized by the party before taking her seat and within 48hrs of winning her election.  On the political shows over the weekend 2 shadow cabinet ministers said that winning Putney and retaining Canterbury were not a price worth paying.  They added that the party was idiotic to force Corbyn to abandon its brexit policy and fight to remain losing the Labour heartlands, they also sent 700 volunteers to Putney 2 days before the election to try and win the seat thinking that the northern vote was secure.  In conclusion in Putney we have now ended up with the worst of all worlds.  We will still be leaving the European Union possibly in the hardest way.  and we now have an MP who is in opposition so will have very little if any effect what so ever and is being attacked by her own party and sidelined even before she sits on those green benches for the first time.

Nick Austin ● 2522d

"A member of the audience added that if you take out the Blair elections when the party was in the centre and not on the far left they have not won an election for over 50 years."Why bother then? What would be the point? "Late in 2002 Lady Thatcher came to Hampshire to speak at a dinner for me. Taking her round at the reception one of the guests asked her what was her greatest achievement. She replied, "Tony Blair and New Labour. We forced our opponents to change their minds."" (ConservativeHome website)

David Ainsworth ● 2522d

Nick: I wouldn't feel too sorry for Fleur Anderson our new MP. She will be ably supported by the two other Wandsworth Labour MPs, Rosena Allin-Khan in Tooting and Marsha de Cordova in Battersea. Strange that Wandsworth returns Tory Councillors but votes for Labour MPs!

Caroline Whitehead ● 2522d

The old story about a house divided seems to have been proven again.I remember (I wouldn't bet on my memory) that some potential candidates did not stand the last 2 times and those that did seemed to lack content.The grilling will only get harder so both leadership skills and content are needed.On the plus side I haven't heard anyone complain that the general election candidates all look and sound alike! (Remember those days?)

Ed Robinson ● 2521d