Forum Topic

Why Putney?

I think there is a place for a real discussion on Why Putney is the only constituency in the UK to go from Blue to Red. Is it as simple as a Remainer  constituency voting against the Brexit party. Is is a function of the popularity of Justine Greening? Is it because Labour activists did their job better than their opposition? Just part of the normal swings we have seen before? There maybe other reasons. Lets discuss. Once again Putney has made political history.

Hugh Thompson ● 2525d37 Comments

Happy to discuss Hugh as long as it doesn't involve personal mud-slinging. I felt i wanted to vote tactically in order to push a hung parliament in order that there may be some semblance of balance. I didn't necessarily want a labour run borough and in fact while i never voted for Justine Greening I thought she was an honest politician. I voted remain and like many others just want us to move forward. I think we're buggered whatever happens sadly.

Maxine Campbell ● 2525d

I agree with you Maxine. Justine was as good a constituent MP as we could have got. I hope Fleur will be the same.

Lucille Grant ● 2525d

I hope so too Lucille

Maxine Campbell ● 2525d

The Liberals really went after Putney with a massive (and presumably expensive), publicity campaign, which felt far more copious than the leafletting of Labour or Conservative. Presumably, because we were a majority Remain area, there were sufficient former Greening voters who voted Liberal, allowing Labour to win. It doesn't matter; let's hope that Fleur is a great M.P.

Bill Christie ● 2525d

That doesnt explain why Putney alone went Blue to Red.

Hugh Thompson ● 2525d

A combination of three factors IMHO, Hugh:1. One of the youngest populations in any UK constituency.  A vast number of voters haven't lived through a hard left Labour govt2. A big remaining constituency.  3. Treatment of Justine Greening - a well-respected MP

Craig Fordham ● 2525d

That makes sense Craig

Maxine Campbell ● 2525d

"A vast number of voters haven't lived through a hard left Labour govt"Apparently I am what is called "hard left" on here, so I ask when was that?

David Ainsworth ● 2525d

People who say that are normally referring to Jim Callaghan in the 1970's. Remember his famous "crisis? What crisis?"

Hugh Walton ● 2525d

Well, I was sobre most of the 1970s and I do not remember Jim Callaghan being "hard left". Of course, Fleet Street may have called him that.

David Ainsworth ● 2525d

The beer and sandwiches 70s, David.  I wasn't around for it, but my Dad (a Union member all his life) always said they were dark days and that anyone who lived through them, would never want to return to.

Craig Fordham ● 2525d

Several reasons: Yes many people in Putney are remainers and therefore against Brexit. People have become used to having an excellent constituency MP in Justine Greening and appreciate the value of this. There were a number of well attended hustings before the election and much subsequent publicity as to the quality of the candidates in which the Labour candidate stood out. Lastly, Putney has voted Labour before (Tony Coleman) and in local Council elections generally there has been a gradual shift towards Labour.

Caroline Whitehead ● 2525d

Having looked at all the results maybe Putney's result chimes with  Tory losses in St Albans and  Richmond,both to Libdems, here again it was Remainers voting against  Brexit. Though freaky Kensington deserted its short stay with Labour which had been partly inspired by Grenfell and Carshalton said goodbye to the Libdems to come  home to Boris. Putney's odd position maybe that unlike other"leafy" suburbs it has always been a two horse race with Labour and not the Libdems.

Hugh Thompson ● 2525d

Apart from the obvious reasons regarding Brexit, I also think that Fleur was quite a centre candidate with an element of soft left, and i also feel that JG was more of a centre politician so it could be that people liked her rather than just the party. That's why i voted for her, not necessarily a Labour fan but i believe that she would argue for the people of Putney when needed - and i just didn't get that sense from Will SweetI also think that the heads of WBC haven't done the Tories many favours lately with the amounts of cuts to things like children's services, and the ongoing issue of redevelopment on the Alton Estate would have guaranteed a Labour vote there. I am sure i am wrong but those are my thoughts

Emarisa Battoia ● 2525d

Compare with Richmond which went Lib Dem.  I think the Lib Dem campaign in Putney was shockingly incompetent.  A bit odd when the last Lib Dem deputy PM used to live here! 

Alan Sherman ● 2525d

Under Callaghan, winter of discontent, the three day week come to mind.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2525d

Hi Hugh - hope you're well. Although no longer a resident in Putney I watch these forums closely, and with interest. I think a potentially (highly?) significant factor is shifting demographics. Many natural Conservative voters have, over the past few years, moved away from Putney - even since the last general election. Many have rented their properties to younger people, who are less 'traditional', both politically and socially, than the previous householders. The departure of an MP who was a hard working local politician and also (for a Tory MP) relatively 'woke' (and therefore particularly popular with younger voters), left the field relatively wide open, particularly if one factors in hard line Remainers who perhaps chose to transfer their votes to the LDs, rather than 'Get Brexit Done'. In summary, for Putney Conservatives at least, a 'perfect storm'...…

Shawn Manning ● 2525d

I have just read an analysis of Labour's disastrous tactics. They decided it was better to go after the middle class Remainers than the working class Leavers. If so Putney was the Labour prize.

Hugh Thompson ● 2525d

I voted (tactically) for Labour; my key reason was Boris Johnson- his disregard for the truth- his Brexit tactics- his treatment of Justine Greening, who has been an excellent constituency MP.Rather ironic really, given that some early analysis is suggesting that the major reason for voters NOT to vote Labour was the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn.Labour did also work really hard in this seat; I had several visits from them, any many leaflets.My best wishes to Fleur Anderson, I'm sure she will be a good representative of Putney.

Jim Cleary ● 2525d

Also heard that masses of Roehampton students who’s parents might live outside Putney and who’s main homes might be outside Putney registered to vote in Putney. They all vote labour don’t they?

Nick Gulliford ● 2525d

Really?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2524d

Must have been the students then. No other constituency in the UK has students. They and their parents don't come from here. Students travel. Stop them voting. Stop all people who travel from voting. In fact, limit voting to people who have never travelled more than 5 miles from home. Happy?

Michael Winstanley ● 2524d

I think most people forget what areas the constituency covers.Only Putney town is ever shown on the news.People outside London probably think we all have heads stuck in row boats.Not that I'm knocking the rowers. Were lucky to have a functioning river. It would be nice to have some functioning bridges too though!

Ed Robinson ● 2524d

So to be the only constituency to go from blue to red out of 650, tells you that Putney is out of touch with the rest of the country.Being out of touch with public opinion is something that has been evident on this forum for many months now.

Paul Game ● 2524d

"So to be the only constituency to go from blue to red out of 650, tells you that Putney is out of touch with the rest of the country."And yet all the 3 Wandsworth constituencies are now held by Labour. Labour holds 49 of the 73 London constituencies.

David Ainsworth ● 2524d

David, You miss the point.The only one to turn from blue to red. Not red to red.I've been debating with you for 3 years and you have never began to understand or acknowledge the reasons why somebody may have voted to leave.Don't worry I know you are not going to start now. You are by no means the only one on this forum.Head buried in the sand comes to mind.Wake up and smell the coffee.The majority of the country wants out of the EU

Paul Game ● 2524d

Paul. Several points, others have pointed out a number valid reasons why Putney may have swapped from blue to red. Another point is it may have been the quality of the candidates, at the hustings Fleur came over as a far better candidate than Will who was very poor at answering questions; true he was caught off guard by questions oh his apparently dubious record as a councillor. I don't see the relevance of public opinion. Putney constituency members will vote in line with their own experiences, opinions and beliefs; that's democracy, public opinion has nothing to with air, other than possibly being one influencing factor. 

Michael Ixer ● 2524d

Momentum were incredibly organised. I was a teller at Roehamptom and quite a few women with not very good English came with new polling cards  with all the relevant details saying vote for Fleur Anderson.

D. E. Buckner ● 2524d

"David, You miss the point.The only one to turn from blue to red. Not red to red."Red is more exciting, although blue is/was pretty for an eggcup."I've been debating with you for 3 years and you have never began to understand or acknowledge the reasons why somebody may have voted to leave.Don't worry I know you are not going to start now. You are by no means the only one on this forum.Head buried in the sand comes to mind.Wake up and smell the coffee."If you had been around here and paying attention 3 to 4 years ago, you might have found me arguing in a manner less than supportive of the EU. I was quite likely to have voted to Leave, until quite close to the Referendum. Even soon after the Referendum, I found myself, at a weekend get-together of longtime friends, arguing with just about everybody else, in support of trying to understand people's reasons to vote to leave. Some of them probably still see me as some sort of leaver."The majority of the country wants out of the EU"If this election shows anything, it disproves that statement. Under 50% of the votes were cast for the Tories, DUP and Brexit parties. And the overall total of votes cast was only 67% of the total electorate. This means that yesterday Brexit was supported by about a third of the total electorate only.But that is all that is necessary to get something done in our system.

David Ainsworth ● 2524d

There could be lots of reasons for this. Yes Brexit is definitely one but there are others.The London constituencies probably know Boris more than the rest of the country.Heathrow.The Conservative candidate cutting services.Justine Greening treatment.Hammersmith bridge (my favourite)

Ed Robinson ● 2524d

GameHaving a different point of view from others is nothing to be ashamed of.It is just a matter of fact and not -'Being out of touch with public opinion'Also, how do you measure 'public opinion' ?It depends on the unit of measure.Undoubtedly based on Parliamentary seats won, public opinion strongly favours the Conservatives.And obviously I respect this as the basis for the Conservatives governing, just as I respected the Referendum result.But if you measure votes cast then public opinion split as follows -Conservatives 43.6% : 13.94M votesLabour        32.2% : 10.29M votesLibDems      11.5% : 3.68M votesSNP          3.9%  : 1.24Putting aside Brexit vs Greens,Plaid etc then it seems to me the majority of the public by this measure are anti-Conservative : 43.6% vs 43.7% (or vs 47.6% with SNP)OR 10.29M votes vs 13.97M votes (or vs 15.21M votes with SNP)And if we narrow the grouping with which we measure 'in touchness' to the Putney constituency then it is not me that is out of touch but YOU !I win and YOU lose !! Conservative: 18,006 votes Labour, Green, LibDem: 32,461 votes.Of course if you don't like the political environment in which you live you could always do what the charming Ms Hammond advocates and that is move to somewhere you will feel more in touch and at home.Blyth Valley ??!!

John Hawkes ● 2524d

If Mr Game were to transfer his inestimable contributions to Blyth Valley, the place would no longer be blithe.On balance though, Putney would be.

David Ainsworth ● 2524d

HawkesYou have been very quiet these last 36 hours.Why would I want to move now the UK is turning into a UK that i want?Obviously the Remainiacs that don't want Brexit have the option to move to the EU under the guidance of the anti-democratic leader Guy Verhofstadt.It could suit them perfectly!

Paul Game ● 2524d

'The majority of the country wants out of the EU'GameNot if you look at the number of votes cast for 'Remain' supporting (in the widest sense) Parties.True there must have been some Labour Brexiteers who voted your way, but then there were probably also some who voted Conservative who wished we could Remain.Although it can be well argued that a strong desire to Brexit strongly influenced the Conservative swing, the desire to get it all over was probably also influential whatever one's Referendum vote.See my posting below.

John Hawkes ● 2524d

Game,I note and I am sure others do too, that you do not address my point that the Election result (by constituency not by votes cast) does not prove empirically that 'public opinion' is now strongly supportive of Brexit.Your other comments in this post are the expected hyperbolic nonsense and name calling.

John Hawkes ● 2524d

For those of you who haven't had a chance to listen to them, I highly recommend the 2019 Reith Lectures by Jonathan Sumption, a former UK Supreme Court Justice. He gives an excellent account of democracy, the need for societies to tolerate different views.  Recordings and transcripts here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00057m8Particularly relevant to our current circumstances are from lecture 2. An extract here:  "The legitimacy of State action in a democracy depends on a general acceptance of its decision-making processes, not necessarily of the decisions themselves but of the method ofmaking them. A free society comprises countless individuals and groups with conflicting opinions and interests. The first task of any political system is to accommodate these differences so that people can live together in a single community without the systematicapplication of force.Democracies operate on the implicit basis that although the majority has authorised policies which a minority deplores, these differences are transcended by their common acceptance of the legitimacy of its decision-making processes. Self-evidently, majority ruleis the basic principle of democracy but that only means that a majority is enough to authorise the State’s acts. It isn’t enough to make them legitimate. That is because majorityrule is no more than a rule of decision. It does nothing to accommodate our differences, it simply restates them in numerical terms.A democracy cannot operate on the basis that a bare majority takes a hundred percent of the political spoils. If it did, it would harbour large and permanently disaffected groups in their midst who had no common bonds to transcend their differences with themajority. A State based on that principle would quickly cease to be a political community at all. That is why all democracies have evolved methods of limiting or diluting the power ofmajorities. I’m going to talk about two of them. They are, really, the only two that matter. One of them is representative politics and the other is law."  Sound familiar?

Ruth Pates ● 2524d

Thanks Ruth. Something for later in the weekend

Michael Ixer ● 2524d