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> Alex - I have seen your comments these last few weeks on this forum and see that you don't believe in democracy at all.Why are you scared of a second referendum (or confirmatory vote) Paul? Are you worried it might not go the way you want? Are you worried that it would provide solid evidence that "the will of the people" might have changed?If it had changed what do you think might have caused that?I obviously want a second referendum because I believe the result would be different now many people know the lies that were spread in the run up to the first.> You are one of the biggest anti-democrats on this forum without a doubt.Is that it? Is that the entire basis of your rebuttal? I think you need to pick up your dictionary again.I'd much rather this turn of Brexit was resolved by a second referendum voting for Remain. I'd be happy if we then had subsequent referenda on the subject every couple of years. I'm not afraid of "the will of the people" if it's based on the honest campaigning, facts and reality. How's that for being anti-democratic? More bites at the cherry for the leavers.> I believe a liberal elitist...I would say I'm not a liberal elitist, mostly because I vote based on what I think is best for the hardest hit in society and not what is best for myself. I will gladly pay more tax to fund better social care, improve salaries in the public sector, etc - things that I do not directly rely upon myself now (a little bit of NHS every so often I suppose). On that basis I don't think I fit your definition of 'liberal elitist' at all. And, just to be clear, I don't think that the Tory policies do anything positive for the hardest hit in society which is one of the major reasons why I would never vote Tory.> In fact - Are you a real person or are you a robot?That's another one of your cheap shots that you throw out time and time again. If in doubt claim the person you disagree with is a robot. If you'd been paying attention you'd see I've been posting to this forum for many years on many subjects. I haven't just appeared in the last few months once politics has reared its ugly head.

Alex Greenbank ● 2526d

> You guys living in your bubble don't give a fcuk about the poor working class areas. All the poor working class areas outside London have mainly nearly all voted to Leave.I was talking about the remain vote it Putney not translating to similar vote spreads for the associated remain parties, and how a constituency that voted hugely in favour of Remain is likely to return a Tory MP.Most Tories seem to fit your definition of 'liberal elite' (here it is again for reference):-"I believe a liberal elitist is a person that has a privileged lifestyle, and an inability/unwillingness to understand the views and opinions of those that do not share the same privilege lifestyle.Because of their privileged lifestyle they are unaffected by issues which affect those outside their peer group, and sneer at those who have a different life experience to themselves."Much of the Tory ethos seems to be a combination of "Pull the ladder up jack" and "If one person can drag themselves up from poverty by hard work with little/no help from the state then they should all be able to, therefore they all deserve little/no help." Evidenced by austerity, the bedroom tax, the proposed dementia tax, etc. Unfortunately that's as practical as "If one person can win the lottery then everyone can and will win it. Problem solved!"> The metropolitan elite in London are trying to block their vote to leave so you are talking nonsense.You keep spouting this nonsense. Democracy is blocking leaving.Why did Theresa May, with a party majority, fail to get Brexit through?Why did Boris Johnson, with a party majority propped up by the DUP, fail to get Brexit through?Is it because of some metropolitan elite anti-democratic conspiracy? Or is it, I dunno, because the proposed deal was a terrible deal?The UK never held any of the cards. The four freedoms were and are indivisible. We can't have our cake and eat it. The round peg of the EU/UK border in NI did not fit in the square hole. Left to negotiate our own way in the world the other countries are going to rip us to shreds. Countries much bigger than us will want huge immigration quotas in return for trade deals. We will have less control than we used to as part of the EU.> For the poor working class areas outside London. leaving is the only hope there is a brighter future outside the corrupt EU.That "leaving is the only hope" is the biggest con the Tories have managed to pull. I hope they (the Tories) are utterly decimated because of it. A Tory win and Brexit as bad as it is predicted and you could see Labour in power for 20+ years with the Tories relegated to 3rd or even 4th party. Maybe that's why Labour have been so "meh" in their campaigns, they're playing the long game and the Tories are falling straight into the trap.

Alex Greenbank ● 2526d

> So correct me if I am wrong. You are suggesting that by  cancelling Brexit you are thinking about all the poor working class areas that have actually voted for Brexit?I believe that Remaining will be better for the whole country, specifically for the poorer working class areas. I think you'll find that's what a lot of people who voted Remain think. Do you really not realise that?Large swathes of whole industries will be hit very hard if/when Brexit happens, even more so if Boris blunders his way to a no deal brexit. The Government's own reports stated this. Many parts of the manufacturing industry (specifically car manufacturing). Steel. Agriculture. etc, etc.How do you think that poor working class areas will benefit from Brexit Paul? All that sovereignty in their pocket will keep them fed and warm I guess.> Interested to hear how austerity has personally affected you these last 10 years or so Alex?I'm interested in why it's important to you and this discussion whether austerity has personally affected me. I get the feeling that whatever I say you'll try and use it to further your line of attack of branding me a liberal elite. In for a penny though...For what it's worth, it has to a degree but you've got to wonder why I'm voting for a party that is looking to end austerity, invest in social care, stop the slow continual privatisation of the NHS, stop there being a need for the thousands of foodbanks that exist in the country, etc. I'm willing to pay more taxes/NI for this even though I know I will benefit less than I put in. How does that fit with your definition of liberal elite? I don't need to apologise for the fact that I'm lucky enough that I don't have to rely on foodbanks, and that I can go on overseas holidays several times a year, but I'm specifically voting to pay more so that others who have less get more help.But, if you want, here are some areas where austerity has affected me:-Policing, crime and enforcement. The roads are far more dangerous than they were years ago due to lack of enforcement. People drive around staring at their mobiles, tablets on their lap, etc. I'm much more concerned about my safety on the roads (cycling) now than I was 10 years ago. The general lack of any concern for being caught, because enforcement is pared down to a bare minimum, is slowly poisoning other aspects of society too.Schools funding. Most primary schools in Putney now rely on parents to plug the funding gap created by austerity. (Note that in less affluent areas of the country schools are simply closed for a half a day a week as they can't afford to pay staff due to funding shortages: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-48770759. Imagine being the party responsible for that.)NHS. Friends/family unable to reliably get the medicines they need for chronic conditions. Waiting times for consultations and operations increased hugely, etc.But, don't take my small experiences. Look at what others write about how well austerity has worked. Here's a place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_government_austerity_programmeHow has austerity affected you Paul? And what are you doing about it?

Alex Greenbank ● 2526d

I answered the question about austerity in another post. Feel free to try and pick it apart to find something to further that part of your game.As for the description of 'liberal elite', let's break it down:-> 'I believe a liberal elitist is a person that has'> ' a privileged lifestyle'Yes, but as I've said before, no-one should have to apologise for their success. I haven't trampled on anyone to get to where I am today. I wasn't gifted it either, I'm hardly the metropolitan elite you wish I was. I'm entirely state educated for one and I think I've inherited a grand total of £125 in my life. I paid most of my own way through university as my parents couldn't afford to support me fully (back in the days of means tested maintenance grants). But then I do recognise that I didn't ever go homeless, hungry or cold growing up (but I'm sure my parents did at times give up many things to ensure this never happened) so this definitely counts as 'privileged' to many in the UK, especially those in the grip of austerity.> ', and an inability/unwillingness to understand the views and opinions of those that do not share the same privilege lifestyle.'Nope. You seem to be stating that because many "poorer working class areas" (your words) voted to leave, and I voted remain (and still want remain), that I somehow am unable or unwilling to understand their views or opinions. Disagreement does not mean I don't have any empathy with the people I disagree with.We can stop here if you like, but I'll continue.> Because of their privileged lifestyle they are unaffected by issues which affect those outside their peer groupAgain, you're effectively saying I have no empathy at all and that I don't care about people outside my peer group. I don't see how you can come to that conclusion without knowing anything about me. Care to explain?How can I be one of your 'liberal elites' when I am voting (and quite willing) to pay more in taxes to help people in a far worse off situation than I am?How can I be one of your 'liberal elites' when I donate time and money to people affected by issues outside of my peer group?Utter nonsense.> and sneer at those who have a different life experience to themselves.'Again, I completely disagree. Please show me evidence where I have sneered at those with a different life experience to myself.It is not my job to disprove your allegation, it is your job to attempt to try and prove it and, on the evidence above, there's little point trying.

Alex Greenbank ● 2526d