Forum Topic

Proof Corbyn is a Brexiteer but his hands are tied

One or two people on here have questioned me when I have said Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart.Why? He has said many times on record that free movement across the EU has suppressed working class wages and this is the group of people he supports.Please watch the video link. This was Corbyn speaking about BEFORE the Irish referendum a few years ago.He told them 'I hope you vote leave, it will be such a boost for those of us who do not want to live in a European Empire' He suggested to them 'if you vote no, don't throw your posters away as they will come after you and want a 2nd and a 3rd referendum until they get the result they want'Ring a bell anyone?Please watch the full 83 second video, as it is yet more proof Corbyn has his hands tied by the 'Liberal elite' in his party.https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1092743191382712320?lang=en

Paul Game ● 2530d62 Comments

The video proves JC can't be trusted.Says one thing and does another!

Mike Essam ● 2530d

"it is yet more proof Corbyn has his hands tied by the 'Liberal elite' in his party."I thought that the charge was that Corbyn has his hands tied by the 'antisemites' in his party.Or that Corbyn was a bully who had tied the hands of the centrists in the party.Or something, any stick will do ...

David Ainsworth ● 2530d

Please give me an honest answer David.What do you make of the Corbyn speech in this video clip?

Paul Game ● 2530d

I suggest you look at this short clip:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Mhokzv-jwAnd you trust Boris Johnson? Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2530d

Any thoughts on the Corbyn video Nicholas?Also interested to hear from Paul Doorly and Ed Robinson and their thoughts on the Corbyn video?Do you still all believe Corbyn is a Remainer after watching the video?

Paul Game ● 2530d

'Says one thing and does another' applies rather more to Johnson. Only this morning, after weeks of emphatic denials in the face of evidence to the contrary, he finally admits that there will be customs checks between GB and NI. Typical Boris! Ho! Ho! You have to larf!

Peter Evans ● 2530d

Any thoughts on the Johnson video?Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2530d

Yes Nick, I will watch it shortly and comment.We can swap comments if you are happy to watch the Corbyn video?There are many things about Johnson I don't like but I believe he is the best of a bad bunch.I also concede many points about Johnson.The problem on this forum is that no-one from the hard left ever concede any points about Corbyn or Abbott. This is what makes it such a bias forum and many people stay way.I purely came on this forum a few years ago to even up the debate as it was the most one-sided forum I have ever seen in my life, and it continues to be the case.Remember that only approx 20% of Remainers want to reverse Brexit out of the original 48%.On this forum it is close to 100% Remainers that want to reverse Brexit.What a bunch of anti-democratic Brexit-blockers you lot are.

Paul Game ● 2530d

I have just watched the clip of Johnson and I agree he is a hypocrite.Have you got it in your heart to be the FIRST on this forum from the hard left to admit Corbyn is also a hypocrite?

Paul Game ● 2530d

I have always regretted Corbyn’s lack of enthusiasm for our membership of the EU. But he did vote remain in the 2016 UK referendum. He believes the    EU needs to be reformed.The Labour party is a democratic organisation, and the Leader should follow the decisions of the Annual Conference.Jeremy Corbyn was elected as Leader in 2015. Your clip is from a speech in 2009. The Lisbon Treaty was approved by referendum on 2 October 2009 (sometimes known as the second Lisbon referendum). The amendment was approved by the Irish electorate by 67.1% to 32.9%, on a turnout of 59%. The Treaty of Lisbon entered into force on 1 December 2009. The UK was given no such option. So his opinion that the Irish should vote no was a minority one.At the time there was much talk of a European army, which Corbyn did not agree with. As you will know the likelihood of such an army has since receded, and the veto of member states could be used in any event to prevent us joining.Johnson has flip flopped on Europe so many times it makes me giddy.I suggest you might also comment on the fact that voters will have the chance to strip power from a dangerous charlatan - Boris Johnson - by voting Labour in Putney on Thursday.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2530d

As expected you weren't able to say Corbyn is a hypocrite.No wonder people don't bother coming on this bias forum.Just the same old waffle from the left and they never concede a point!

Paul Game ● 2530d

"Remember that only approx 20% of Remainers want to reverse Brexit out of the original 48%."No I don't. From where do you remember it? ------------------------"most of those who voted Remain believe that Brexit should be reversed. On average two in three of them tell Kantar they think Article 50 should be revoked." (Source available).

David Ainsworth ● 2530d

Paul:  Pot calling the kettle black.N.

Nicholas Evans ● 2530d

Nick I will let people look at our exchanges and see who is the hypocrite.

Paul Game ● 2530d

"As expected you weren't able to say Corbyn is a hypocrite.No wonder people don't bother coming on this bias forum.Just the same old waffle from the left and they never concede a point!"As it is Christmas, you could just flounce off like a pantomime dame. But, naaah!-------------------------"Nobody likes me, everybody hates meI think I'll go eat worms!Big fat juicy onesEensie weensy squeensy onesSee how they wiggle and squirm!"

David Ainsworth ● 2530d

Paul: well the answer to that is obviously Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2530d

"Remember that only approx 20% of Remainers want to reverse Brexit out of the original 48%."No I don't. From where do you remember it?

David Ainsworth ● 2530d

No surprise that David isn't prepared to say Corbyn is a hypocrite in the video.This is wonderful. Not one from the hard Left can concede an inch. I'm loving this...... I have been saying this for many weeks. The right = open honest debate.The Left = the opposite of that.

Paul Game ● 2530d

"The right = open honest debate."Bwahahahahahahahah! Honest as the day is long, they are. But it is winter and the days are rather short."Remember that only approx 20% of Remainers want to reverse Brexit out of the original 48%."No I don't. From where do you remember it?

David Ainsworth ● 2530d

David. Why would I bother answering your questions when you never answer mine. Do your own research.When I posted this thread I said to my wife that Matt Palmer will possibly be the only person on this whole of this forum from the left who would admit that Corbyn comes across as a hypocrite after watching the video, as he's the only one from the left who will answer a straight question with a straight answer.

Paul Game ● 2530d

@Paul @David - you're both as bad as each other. And basically mirroring the problem in this country e.g after the last debate Boris 52%, Corbyn 48%; EU Referendum Leave 52% Remain 48%Perhaps it's time to take your fight to a quiet corner of a pub.

Lucille Grant ● 2530d

"Why would I bother answering your questions when you never answer mine. Do your own research."I did. You ignored it:-"most of those who voted Remain believe that Brexit should be reversed. On average two in three of them tell Kantar they think Article 50 should be revoked." (Source available).Mr Game:-"Remember that only approx 20% of Remainers want to reverse Brexit out of the original 48%."No I don't. From where do you remember it?It must be fun to make stuff up, and then demand that those who argue with you MUST waste their time hunting for it. No need to prove it, just demand that others disprove it.

David Ainsworth ● 2530d

Me = After watching both videos I accept that both Corbyn and Johnson come across as hypocrites.The hard Left = After watching both videos I accept that Johnson is a hypocrite.Decent Remainer = Not the result I wanted but I accept the result of the referendum for the sake of democracy.Remoaner - Reverser - Brexit blocker - Anti-democrat = I don't accept the result and don't give a monkeys about democracy. I just want to cancel Brexit.See the link? Haha You couldn't make it up.

Paul Game ● 2530d

Your hard left views are in a small minority in the UK.Keep growing your beard and get over it!

Paul Game ● 2530d

Can't argue with the fair comparison Paul made.

Mike Essam ● 2530d

"@Paul @David - you're both as bad as each other."I really do not see why you heap praise on Mr Game by writing this, while with the same words you condemn me.

David Ainsworth ● 2530d

There's a problem with your suggestion.I'm from a working class background and would want to go to a traditional pub.David would probably choose a wine bar being a 'champagne socialist'

Paul Game ● 2530d

Paul there’s nothing new here. His party, or most of it, have spent years trying to shift him but he’s still stuck on the fence. Your Brexit would probably be safe in his hands had he not committed to putting it back to the people, who if given the chance and given all we know now would probably vote to remain - or “remain and reform” as Labour put it.  Still the best route out of this if we put our economic well-being ahead of that much quoted Will of the People.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2530d

Hi Paul,Just seen the clip. But not read thread yet.My personal thoughts:First of all do not confused criticism of the EU with a desire for free market economics where workers have no protection resulting in a race to the bottom for pay and conditions. That would be the Conservative (formally ERG) plan and I bet that Corbyn has never believed or said he believes in such nonsense.Corbyn’s position as I understood it, prior to Boris’ no deal Brexit was it had to put jobs and workers’ rights first. Two consecutive Conservative governments have failed to do this. That is a government failure to engage the opposition and get a consensus.The ‘remain’ or ‘brexit’ sound bites are nonsense. The media, especially the BBC have made no attempt to break down these tribal words into meaningfully things that people actually want and can be delivered. Politians that hide behind them generally have other reasons for not expanding on what they mean.Going back to the past you will find left and right activists arguing that there needs to be more accountability, better worker protection and less EU centralisation, which I think many people will agree with. Even the Liberals are not proposing for us to join the Euro.A genuine deal, perhaps a Norway type deal would probably give us the best of both worlds.Lastly those advocating a no deal Brexit need to take account of the high levels of personal debt. I remember the Lawson days of 18pc mortgage rates, yet today even a small increase in interest rates would put people under water. As in the last Tory fiasco it will certainly not be the Moggs or Johnson’s homes being repossessed.

Ed Robinson ● 2530d

Bear in mind that, in June 2016, Labour MPs had a vote of no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn. It passed 172 to 41.Corbyn said the “motion was unconstitutional” & he would continue as leader. Even his own MPs don’t want you to vote for him.I will continue posting on Corbyn until the 12th Dec to even up this thoroughly bias left wing forum.Then after Corbyn loses on the 12th the millionaire champagne socialist can retire on his gold plated pension and he can take a back seat. #GeneralElection19

Paul Game ● 2530d

Another poster from the left won't answer the question.Let me spell it out. Corbyn tells the Irish that if you vote 'no' they (the political elite) won't accept you voting 'no' and they will come after you for a 2nd or 3rd referendum until they get the result they want.Exactly what Corbyn is now doing.They voted 'no' so lets have a 2nd referendum. LOLYou couldn't make it up!Thanks Ed exactly the answer I expected.

Paul Game ● 2530d

Paul you are nothing if not relentless at pushing your entrenched views on this forum and dismissing anyone who fails to share them as “hard left”.  There are many shades of opinion out there, most of them admittedly to the left of you, but quite frankly I’d hate to hear from anyone actually to the right of you!

Jonathan Callaway ● 2530d

Corbyn was elected leader on two occasions by a majority of the Party's 500,000 members. It's sad that a number of MPs found it difficult to come to terms with the new direction the Party was moving in and indulged in divisive votes of no confidence and other manoeuvres to try and undermine Corbyn - which some are still trying to do. Of course such divisions aren't helpful, particularly when there's a manifesto of transformational policies to put to the people.

Peter Evans ● 2530d

"Bear in mind that, in June 2016, Labour MPs had a vote of no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn. It passed 172 to 41."Later:-"Jeremy Corbyn has been re-elected as Labour leader, comfortably defeating his challenger Owen Smith.He won 61.8% of the vote, a larger margin of victory than last year."BBC 24 September 2016.

David Ainsworth ● 2530d

For Mr Game, 52% of a vote is an undeniable mandate for change, but somehow 62% is not.

David Ainsworth ● 2530d

Do you mean Irish or Northern  Irish? There is a difference.

Lucille Grant ● 2530d

Hi Paul,Ireland has a written constitution the UK does not.Amending Ireland’s constitution requires a proper referendum.I haven’t heard anyone who advocates a no deal Brexit argue for a written UK constitution. Why is that? Why wouldn’t they? I assume it’s because anything gained from hard Brexit would be traded away again!The Irish referendum in question was not an in or out of the EU, but on the Lisbon Treaty. Which is not applicable to Norway.On the political elite: Protection can only come from having a proper written constitution, freedom of information, electoral reform and more accountability. As I said above it seems these are never mentioned by Johnson!

Ed Robinson ● 2530d

I must be right wing because I want to see the democratic vote of Brexit upheld?That old chestnut.You will find many 100,000's of people to the right of me.Is this right wing?I want to reverse the privatisation of our essential services in the UK - gas, water and electric.I want public transport returned to public ownership.I think it is disgraceful people are making profits from our essential public services.I would cap prices on gas, water, electric, rail, tube and bus fares and also subsidise the prices where necessary to help out the poor and elderly with these essential services.There will be many people to the right of me that wouldn't want these policies.Am I right wing because I don't tolerate sour and bitter losers? That's my problem with the left on this forum. The Brexit blockers are an undemocratic bunch to say the least. You are willing to bring civil disorder to the streets of the UK in order to fulfil your fantasy of cancelling Brexit.This is why millions of traditional Labour voters are switching to the Tories, they are sick to death of the 'Liberal elite' trying to overturn the Brexit referendum.Let's drain the undemocratic swamp once and for all.

Paul Game ● 2529d

Well said Paul.I will add that I want a referendum for the restoration of capital punishment.I think Jonathan might have found someone to the right of you.

Sue Hammond ● 2529d

Blair slogan 1997 - tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime.Corbyn slogan 2019 - soft on terrorists, support the causes of terrorists.

Paul Game ● 2529d

'I will add that I want a referendum for the restoration of capital punishment'.Ms HammondWould you be kind enough to list which crimes in your mind would warrant this punishment ?

John Hawkes ● 2529d

'Corbyn slogan 2019 - soft on terrorists, support the causes of terrorists'.Mr Game,I like it !!

John Hawkes ● 2529d

Sorry to see your team lost.Looks like play offs this season as top 2 looking strong.I agree with Sue.Zero tolerance on terrorism.#keepourstreetssafe

Paul Game ● 2529d

Paul, I suspect you’ll find more of your wish list in the Labour rather than the Tory manifesto. How strange is that?  Maybe the old labels don’t work any more, like “liberal elite” for example.  When Brexit is done who will you vote for then?As for capital punishment the countries where this is still practised include Saudi, Iran, Iraq and of course Syria.  Does that mean supporters of it are Islamophiles?The USA still has it, the only western democracy still to do so, but the murder rates there are much higher than ours so the deterrent effect is clearly limited.  Retribution is all it is.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2529d

No point. As signatories of ECHR we agreed to abolish capital punishment so we can't restore it.

Michael Ixer ● 2529d

Retribution is fine by me.

Sue Hammond ● 2529d

To be honest Jonathan, there is never one single party that represents my views.I would always value strong funding and support for public services, NHS, care in the community and infrastructure like the left do, but I'm right wing on Law and order and keeping our streets safe for instance.Also very important to me is having a strong leader on the world stage who stands up for our country and has strong connections. Not a leader who makes friends with our enemies and makes enemies with our friends.It would take a big change in the Labour party for me to support them again after Brexit.Not impressed with their front bench at all.I don't see any leaders in there who love our country.

Paul Game ● 2529d

"Also very important to me is having a strong leader on the world stage who stands up for our country and has strong connections.Not a leader who makes friends with our enemies and makes enemies with our friends.It would take a big change in the Labour party for me to support them again after Brexit.Not impressed with their front bench at all.I don't see any leaders in there who love our country."Do you not love this country? After all, you claim that you opposed the Iraq War, which Boris Johnson voted for. The "friend of our enemies" Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Iraq War. Corbyn was right. Johnson backed the deaths of tens of thousands. Such strength on the world stage, such making enemies of potential friends.

David Ainsworth ● 2529d

You couldn’t make it up! Oh, you did. Comedy gold 🥳

Freddie Francis ● 2529d

I agree with a lot that Peter Hitchens has to says on policing, however it's all academic if you do not have any police.Strong leader on the world stage: Wilson for keeping us out of the Vietnam war. What pressure the US must have put on him!

Ed Robinson ● 2529d

Clearly!  But it doesn’t work as a deterrent and you can’t reverse it if the wrong man goes to the gallows.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2529d

No it may not work as a deterrent, but I also support the death penalty.  Brady and Hindley should have hanged.  The suffering of Lesley Anne’s Downey’s mother has been unbearable, having to listen to the tape of her child’’s suffering. There was no doubt whatsoever who the child rapist, child torturers and child murderers were in this case.

Martine Guy ● 2529d

Also Jonathan the 3 most important issues for me at this election are only deliverable by a Tory government.1 Hold parliament accountable to deliver Brexit.2 Law and order. (Tackling Knife crime, more stop and search powers to the Police, not less)3 Defence and Security. (Zero tolerance towards acts of terrorism. Life means life sentencing)Labour cannot deliver on any of these 3.

Paul Game ● 2529d

I agree with you about Hitchens👍

Paul Game ● 2529d

Yes, I would have lost no sleep over those two.However, we would have hanged this bloke too. He seems to have been worth saving.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7770757/Killer-battled-London-Bridge-attacker-said-hoped-thwart-suicide-vest.html

David Ainsworth ● 2529d

'Law and order. (Tackling Knife crime, more stop and search powers to the Police, not less)'The Conservatives have had  10 years to sort this and improve it. Instead it's got steadily murderously worse. The promise of more police merely replacing the ones  that have been lost during this time is  laughable.

Lucille Grant ● 2529d

David, I do not think anyone who supports the death penalty believes that every murderer should be hanged, I don’t anyway.  There are some crimes that can never be forgiven they are just so bad and justice must be done for the families of the victims.  I have posted about the release from prison of the Beast of Worcester - he murdered 3 infants and impaled their bodies on railings.  Really how many children do you have to kill to get a full life sentence?  He should never be released.  This isn’t justice.As for London Bridge, this man did a heroic act but let us not forget the vulnerable young woman he murdered,from what I read her family have not forgiven him.  The victims and their families must get justice.

Martine Guy ● 2529d

I agree Lucille, but Boris is tougher on law and order than Theresa May was.She was soft on stop and search and backed Khan's policy to reduce it in London.Disgraceful decision. Political correctness is killing London under Khan.Boris will hold Khan to account on knife crime.

Paul Game ● 2529d

And btw I was also furious that Teresa May reduced the police numbers both as Home Secretary and PM.She was the worst Tory leader and Home Secretary in my lifetime. Far too soft. She should have been a Lib-Dem.She kept repeating there was no link to reducing Police numbers and rising crime.That woman was awful in office and she has to take responsibility for some of the knife crime!

Paul Game ● 2529d

"Boris will hold Khan to account on knife crime."But who can hold Boris Johnson to account on anything?No wonder that Johnson was too frit to face Andrew Neil!"Boris Johnson struggled to explain the Conservative Party's "made up" crime and HS2 figures during a flailing interview.The Prime Minister was grilled over Home Secretary Priti Patel's claims that a Labour win in this week's general election would spark a violent crimewave.She said there would be 4,000 more violent assaults, 150 extra sex assaults and 52 more murders each year under Labour - because of the party's opposition to police stop-and-search powers.LBC radio presenter Nick Ferrari asked Mr Johnson to explain the source of the figures."https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/flailing-boris-johnson-struggles-explain-21056039The science fiction crime figures were from the Conservative research department. So unimpeachable a source!

David Ainsworth ● 2529d

How many knife deaths in London when Boris was mayor compared to Khan?Stopping 'stop and search' was a ridiculous policy by the politically correct Khan.The bloke hasn't got a clue. He's just a virtue signaller.There was a documentary on recently where the gang members admitted they carried knives more than previously because they knew they wouldn't get searched anymore.There you go - from the horses mouth.You still think it was a good policy to stop it David even after all the deaths?

Paul Game ● 2529d

Small correction:-There were two murderers fighting Khan. You are talking about the other one. This bloke was convicted under "joint enterprise", as he did not commit the murder, his accomplice did. I am not attacking the concept of joint enterprise, by the way."Crilly was originally found guilty of murdering and robbing 71-year-old Nigerian businessman Augustine Maduemezia in Manchester on February 8, 2005.Crilly, a former heroin addict, was initially jailed for life with a minimum term of 20 years in December 2005.He spent 13 years in prison until his murder conviction was quashed following a Supreme Court ruling on joint enterprise law. In April 2018 Crilly pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of manslaughter and was re-sentenced to 18 years in prison.He was told he would serve half of the sentence in prison, but having done time since 2005 he had already completed the nine years required and was released on license.The Supreme Court ruled that the law on joint enterprise, where defendants are prosecuted for murder even if they did not strike the fatal blow, had been misinterpreted." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7770757/Killer-battled-London-Bridge-attacker-said-hoped-thwart-suicide-vest.html

David Ainsworth ● 2529d