Forum Topic

Thought for Sunday ...

Michael Ixer ● 2537d31 Comments

Nowhere?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2537d

You will never understand Brexit from a Leave point of view Michael.It's all about holding the Liberal anti-democratic parliament to account.Although they think they are superior to Brexiteers they are not.The outgoing Parliament have been a National disgrace and the sooner the swamp is drained the better.

Paul Game ● 2537d

We are about to hold parliament to account. We shouldn’t have to put the economy and our place in the international order at risk at the same time.  Brexit surely is about more than that.  I do wish someone would tell me what we hope to gain from it.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2537d

Freedom to work fast and accurately in our trade and national interests, without having to go through hundreds of hoops and red tape, by which time it's probably too late anyway.

Bunny Payne ● 2537d

Freedom from the absolute greed and hypocrisy of EU 'officials' who aren't sackable or accountable as here.  freedom from a justice system that takes precedence over ours

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2537d

I find it interesting that with all this talk of freedom from courts and the ability to trade under WTO rules others (including our friends  in Australia) are now trying to use international law to sanction us for breaching the WTO agreement we entered into. Frying pan to fire? What's the real benefit? Won't international agreements the UK  entered into always supersede national law whether it's the EU, ECHR, WTO, NATO, etc?

Michael Ixer ● 2537d

For over 3 years you have talked about why we are better off in than out.But you are forgetting the simple fact that as a country we have democratically voted to leave.

Paul Game ● 2537d

Yawn.‘Get Brexit done’. Ok.Who’s Brexit; Johnson’s, May’s, Farage’s, Putin’s, Trump’s????Let’s ‘Get Boris gone’, then a genuinely viable Leave option versus a Remain option, put to the people to decide.Not a dodgy Dave pig’s ear of a referendum, but a clear, implementable choice.Then, hopefully we can give all this tedious SHITE a break.Jesus wept!

Paul Doorly ● 2537d

Sorry Paul but Brexit is a matter of principle.The 2 way choice was offered by the government of the day and the result was clear.I take it you want to reverse Brexit and are not a man of principle?

Paul Game ● 2537d

Of course I’m a man of principles, and if you don’t like them, well I’ve always got some others!Anyway, look when there are twenty five different definitions of Brexit floating around, then it’s got to be put back to the people.It’s not your fault, or my fault, but the fault of Dave Cameron and his idiotic question that was too vague. We do referendums in Ireland and have lots of experience of how to manage them. The key is to have a very specific question with a genuinely well informed debate. Still plenty of heat and passion, but at the end, the decision is implemented and we move on.That isn’t what happened here, in fact, it was a lesson in how not to carry out a referendum.No one is to blame but the politicians responsible.

Paul Doorly ● 2537d

Reversing Brexit can equally a matter of principle. More sixth form level judgemental nonsense.

Freddie Francis ● 2537d

Haha I wondered how long it would be until the most unprincipled man on the forum piped up!You can't help yourself can you lol

Paul Game ● 2537d

Paul I don't doubt it is an absolute mess, but that is down to the anti-democratic Brexit blockers in parliament.

Paul Game ● 2537d

The troll bites back!!!You were wondering? Sorry to have kept you waiting. Tell me, in your little universe, what principles might I be lacking? Your capacity to accuse people of what you seem to think are negative traits knows no bounds. Quite amusing in a morbid way to observe your ability to fling out a rebuke based on nothing but the fact someone had the temerity to pick a hole in your thin layer of cobblers that you continually spout. Do I get up your nose? Silly question. Of course I do lol.

Freddie Francis ● 2537d

Yes it was a vote by the whole of the UK (& Gibraltar).So why are the Conservative and Unionist Party leaving NI behind?I never get any answers when I ask this question!

Ed Robinson ● 2537d

When I first came on this forum a few years ago I thought "who is this male chauvinistic pig who keeps giving Sue a hard time."Since then you have spent a lot of time criticising Sue or myself.Not a problem for me but why bother coming on the forum if that is all you can offer?At least Sue and myself offer an alternative point of view on this forum, albeit a point of view that most on here don't agree with.Why don't you find an interesting subject to discuss and start a thread yourself?Then you can give others the chance to disagree with you?Also people on here can see for themselves whose trolling who.I know you are an ex Thatcherite turned soft liberal who wants to cancel Brexit so maybe you have lost your moral compass?

Paul Game ● 2536d

I agree with you that Ireland is a massive problem regarding Brexit.The whole thing regarding the Irish border is a mess and obviously wasn't thought through by the Cameron government before offering the in/out vote.If I was Irish I probably wouldn't be very happy myself.

Paul Game ● 2536d

I've been saying that Ireland will be a mess before the referendum!

Michael Ixer ● 2536d

It's the  Northern Irish who aren't 'very happy' and I for one can't blame them.

Lucille Grant ● 2536d

Bit of a broken record aren’t you. You bunged that moral compass jibe at me before. If you’d care you look at my posts you’ll find I contribute more widely than you care to notice.And then you twist my criticism of Sue’s comments into male chauvinism. Quite an art the way you make these leaps of imagination. Paul, if you pay attention to general discussions here you’d discover I comment on the posts of both sexes equally but you and Sue, being two peas in a pod, do attract me more than most for probably obvious reasons.  Nothing sexist involved at all though. Not a problem for you?  It plainly is as you like to snap back pretty quickly. Funny that I’m expressing an alternative view too you. I.e. you think you’re always right and I thing some of the things you say are wrong. Note the word ‘some’. I’m not an absolutist like you. You’re disagreeing with me. When did I try and stop you?I’ve started subjects. Do your research.  Everyone can see you trolling.  You’re right there. Last point. Two out of three. Not bad. You forgot to call me an anti-democrat elite leftie. You’re going soft on me.

Freddie Francis ● 2536d

I agree the in/out referendum has caused serious complications particularly the Irish border. It wasn't properly thought through.The reason I absolutely won't change my mind though has been the attitude of the Remoaners and attempted Reversers. (Please note not the decent Remainers)If there hadn't been all the nonsense 'we didn't know what we were voting for' Brexiteers may not have been so stubborn.Cameron made it absolutely clear what we were voting for before the election and no-one I personally know who voted for Brexit has said to me they didn't know what they voted for.I now want the government to be held accountable for the promise of Brexit or otherwise for me democracy is dead.(I appreciate many on this thread disagree with me though)

Paul Game ● 2536d

The north of Ireland is petrified that all the good work of the Good Friday Agreement is going to be undone by idiotic Tory twats. The Unionists will pay a heavy price I am sure for being as naive to think they could go into bed with the Tories and not get screwed!The Republic is absolutely furious that the Tories have created this mess, blundering into a referendum without any consideration for the UK or it’s neighbours - and then accusing everyone else of making a mess. Ireland has had to do a hell of a lot of work to try and avoid a huge impact on its economy. The Irish government, with the help of the USA (not Trump) have managed to make sure the North is treated with the seriousness it deserves. As Pelosi said a little while back, the US will do NO trade deal with the UK if the peace agreement is jeopardised. The only sense that the deal is oven ready is that it’s a plucked and stuffed turkey.

Paul Doorly ● 2536d

Paul & Paul et al. As I've noted numerous times having read papers on the GFA before the referendum it was obvious that Ireland would be problematic. I worked through Brexit and the GFA with some friends who also have maths degrees using set tgeory and it doesn't work 😶  That means you have to have agreement and goodwill from the EU, UK, NI unionists, NI republicans to execute Brexit - and probably US Irish interests if one wants a trade deal - effectively modifying the GFA. Say want you want about "Remoaners", etc but I'm only quoting logical, legal facts. If you didn't read the GFA before voting in the referendum that's not really my fault. It appears that Cameron, Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Farage were negligent in checking the GFA otherwise there wouldn't be such a catastrophic mess over the Irish border issue. Why would one vote for a party with such negligent, ignorant senior members? Who'd want to be associated with such stupidity? 

Michael Ixer ● 2536d

You often make references over trust regarding Johnson and Rees-Mogg.Well I trust them more over delivering Brexit than any other party.I trust Johnson over Corbyn to keep our streets safer.Johnson is for the stop and search policy, Mayor Khan is against it.Imagine the police officer with the difficult task of shooting the terrorist on friday knowing he had the support of the PM, as opposed to the worry that if JC was PM he may not have had his support.Jeremy Corbyn has suggested in the past he doesn't support the shoot to kill policy. You can scoff at this but it is a serious point.Do you trust Diane Abbott as home secretary to keep our streets safe? Many don't.You will find the public don't support Corbyn and Abbott when it comes to keeping the streets safe and the upcoming GE will prove the country have more faith in the Tories than Labour.

Paul Game ● 2536d

This “freedom” is illusory. We have all the freedom we need to trade with any country around the world from within the EU and with the collective strength of the EU behind us. The EU enhances not detracts from our clout in the world.  The risks to our economy and our position in the world are too great to justify the massive disruption Brexit will bring - and of course is already bringing.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2536d

There is no monopoly on greed and hypocrisy in Brussels. We lose more than we gain.  The EU parliament uses PR arguably a far more representative system than our FPTP.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2536d

As Mr Game writes: "the upcoming GE will prove the country have more faith in the Tories than Labour."And you cannot argue with "faith". You may only kowtow.

David Ainsworth ● 2536d

Is this an example of the hundreds of hoops and red tape that it's  been suggested we are subjected to by the EU? If so, we need much more of it, not less in the Singapore on the North Sea that the neocons would like to turn us into in a race to the bottom. The European Parliament has voted for a complete ban on a range of single-use plastics across the union in a bid to stop pollution of the oceans.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45965605

Richard Carter ● 2536d

I have had several trips to Ireland north and south in the last year and I have encountered some of the anger and frustration Paul Doorley has just articulated. It has put British-Irish relations back many years from the high point of the Queen’s visit in 2011 and sadly reawakened many old resentments. Most Brits combine ignorance and indifference towards Ireland which is one major reason why this has blown up in the government‘s face as they seek solutions to a self-created Brexit problem nobody ever thought about.  It is so sad and so unnecessary.  The bottom line is that there a million angry, resentful, fearful and unloved Protestants / Unionists / Presbyterians in the north whose views have somehow to be accommodated. They are our problem and one originally  created by the mass plantations of some centuries ago.  Irish history, it is said, is still current affairs. If Ireland is one day reunified they may technically become Dublin’s problem but I doubt it will be possible for Britain to wash its hands of the problem.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2536d

None of which us helped by attitudes like this of an (unnamed) former Tory minister: "We simply cannot allow the Irish to treat us like this .... This simply cannot stand ... The Irish really should know their place."https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46528952

Richard Carter ● 2536d

Or, even worse, the Priti Patel threat to impose food shortages on Ireland if they failed to cooperate on Brexit.  Even Theresa May (remember her?) thought that was out of order. Patel had either never heard about Ireland’s Great Famine or decided to ignore it.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2536d