Forum Topic

Stand Down Susan, Stand Down Please! #putney

A personal message to Sue Wixley, Liberal DemocratDear Sue, Imagine finding out on 13 December that Boris Johnson had secured a majority by a single seat and that seat was Putney.You may go on to achieve great things in your life but would you ever be able to do enough to at the end of your days say that they outweighed the impact of this?Yes, we understand that your party has fought truly and faithfully for the end of Brexit that the overwhelming majority of the people of Putney want.Yes, we understand that Jeremy Corbyn cannot be trusted on this issue and it sticks in our craw that someone who could be so mealy mouthed on the issue of anti-semitism might be prime minister.However, the only possible alternative is a duplicitous, mendacious, corrupt philanderer who may well be compromised by a foreign power who is determined that we will leave the EU whatever the cost.Every poll is now telling us that he looks set for victory if we do not radically change the path we are on. One change that must be made is that constituencies who voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU must elect Remain MPs.Yes, we understand that your party did well in the European elections but on the basis of that result the Brexit Party would be set to be the largest party in government. Now every major tactical voting site is telling us that Labour have the best chance in Putney.Yes, we understand that the main reason we are in this daft situation is Labour's failure to agree to cooperate at the local level and not contest seats in which you are the best bet for beating the Tories such as Richmond Park.But you must surely understand that the best way to help ensure your party formed a part of the next government and stopped Brexit is to stand down now. You may one day find it impossible to forgive yourself if you don't.

David Parker ● 2540d39 Comments

Judging by the sheer deluge of leaflets received from the LibDems you've got no hope of Wixley standing down.

Sue Hammond ● 2540d

Well said David.I agree with all your points. Richmond Labour aren't campaigning hard and most of them are coming to Putney to canvass. It seems ridiculous that the Lib Dems are actually helping Boris Johnson get a majority by not standing down seats in Putney.I really really hope Sue Wixley understands and reflects on how she can best serve the hops aims and aspirations of Putney residents. Please Sue, act in the interests of Putney residents and stand down; we cannot and must not elect another Conservative MP here!

Daniel Shearer ● 2540d

The Labour activists are polluting the forum again. They do so like to agree with each other.

Stephen Walker ● 2540d

I agree with Sue we have been bombarded with marketing material they would be nuts to stand down. Why vote Labour for unrealistic economic policies which will do more damage than Brexit ever could.  Brexit is one thing Corbyn and his cabal are something much worse.

Robert Wheeler ● 2540d

Or you could end up with Corbageddon - Brexit plus Corbyn.

Stephen Walker ● 2540d

On a minor point, candidates can't actually stand down - the deadline has passed and ballot papers are being produced.  The best they can hope for is that the Lib Dems disappear and stop trying to win votes...much like Jeremy Corbyn has been doing since he was elected :-)

Craig Fordham ● 2540d

Why would she step down when the bookies have her 2nd favourite behind the Tories for Putney?It's Labour that needs to step down in Putney if you don't want a Tory MP in Putney.Labour are currently 3rd with the bookies for Putney.

Paul Game ● 2540d

David, I agree with your analysis. I voted for the LibDems in the European elections, but this time I will vote Labour. I hope many LibDem supporters will do similarly as not to do so will let Boris Johnson’s Tories win Putney.If the current myths about Corbyn and the Labour Party being anti-semitic are putting you off from voting Labour because of the stories being peddled by a majority of the national press, it’s worth reading the following: https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/smoke-without-fire-the-myth-of-a-labour-antisemitism-crisis/Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2540d

Hi Nick. I listen to LBC a lot and the subject of anti-Semitism within the Labour Party comes up quite often, and many Jewish people call in. I rarely hear any of them defending Corbyn but I do hear a great deal of fear from most of them, and an increasing number are now saying they would leave the UK if Corbyn ever becomes PM. I cannot imagine why they are that frightened but I don't walk in their shoes, but from what I listen to I am convinced their fear is real.

Sue Hammond ● 2540d

Sue, I’m sure their fear is genuine. But is it based on facts or prompted by the myths being  promoted largely by the rightwing media? I think so. Have you read the report I linked to? Hard to argue with the dispassionate presentation of the facts.Meanwhile many in Putney realise what a threat a Tory government would be. To prevent one as many people as possible including LibDems should vote Labour for the reasons set out by David.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2540d

I think many in Putney realise what an absolute catastrophe a Corbyn/ McDonnell government would be - far far more serious than brexit/ remain.  Were this a Labour Lib Dem marginal I would vote Lib Dem in a heart beat.Still this board seems dominated by  people supporting the most left wing Labour Party since the days of michael foot.  Do they have an agenda beyond brexit too I wonder?

Mike Warman ● 2540d

"Do they have an agenda beyond brexit too I wonder?"Perhaps you have any suggestions as to what this agenda might be? Or is it just some vague nebulous fear?

David Ainsworth ● 2540d

'If the current myths about Corbyn and the Labour Party being anti-semitic are putting you off from voting Labour because of the stories being peddled by a majority of the national press, it’s worth reading the following: https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/smoke-without-fire-the-myth-of-a-labour-antisemitism-crisis/'@Nick You don't know what you are talking about - stop peddling myths yourself. Jewish representation in Labour is through the Jewish Labour Movement, one of the oldest socialist societies and originally founded in 1903. Jewish Voice for Labour is a tiny minority movement which arrived on the scene two years ago. In June  this year  Jon Lansman launched an angry attack on Jewish Voice For Labour, writing that they are "part of the problem and not part of the solution to antisemitism in the Labour Party."The Momentum founder stated it was his "observation... that neither the vast majority of individual members of JVL nor the organisation itself can really be said to be part of the Jewish community."In a letter written to JVL co-chairs Jenny Manson and Leah Levane, Mr Lansman also said that JVL "ill-serves the cause of Palestinian rights."Mr Lansman launched his attack on the pro-Jeremy Corbyn group after they wrote to him suggesting he no longer reflected the views of most Momentum members - despite having founded the group himself. ;He stated similar views in 2018. Much as I dislike Momentum I'll take his views rather than the Jewish antisemites who make up Jewish Voice for Labour.And you might be interested in Emily Benn (granddaughter of Tony) in today's Times - it's behind a paywall but these are some of her significant comments:'I saw growing up just how much good Labour can do in government. But for the first time, I find myself unable to vote for anything, only against. Neither Jeremy Corbyn nor Boris Johnson is fit to be prime minister; I do not believe that either deserves a majority.Labour of 2019 is not the party I joined. The change over the past few years has been swift. It is the antisemitism crisis that has caused me most pain. I cannot and will not endorse a party I believe to be institutionally antisemitic, which, if it formed a government, would send a terrible message about what level of racism we are willing to tolerate to win an election. As for the unhealthy internal culture, I’ve experienced first-hand how personally hurtful and hateful many Corbyn supporters can be, dare you voice an opinion they do not agree with.On the other hand, I cannot do anything to support a Conservative Party whose record is one of injustice, inequality and incompetence. Mr Johnson has proved time and again that he is not a man anyone should trust to run anything, let alone our country. He is cavalier with the truth, and his inflammatory language is dangerous.'https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/born-labour-but-now-i-desperately-want-a-party-i-can-believe-in-again-05gv5xtn7

Lucille Grant ● 2540d

Brilliant, David. Hope you are going to send this directly to Sue Wixley!

Jane Carter ● 2540d

Yes Sue, there are many Jews I know of who have suffered anti semitic attacks over recent years, far in excess of what used to happen. Britain has always been considered a safe haven for Jewish people but things have changed thanks to both Far Right as well as Far Left extremism.I do not endorse the  Israeli Government at all but many Antisemites hide behind Antizionsm and use  Israeli government policies as a reason to spread Jew hate.The Labour Party has taken too little action to remove Antisemites from the Party and that is a reason why the Jewish community feel fear. I see far too much anti Jewish sentiment via comments on Twitter and Facebook, in the main from ardent followers of Jeremy Corbyn. The Labour Party shares with the BNP the 'accolade' of being investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Says it all really.

Lucille Grant ● 2540d

The accusations of Islamophobia in the Conservative Party are an Islamist plot fabricated by Iran to try and get Corbyn elected so he can to protect the Islamic Republic's interests… sounds ridiculous right? So stop gaslighting Jews about Labour's antisemitism problem.

Lucille Grant ● 2540d

"I cannot imagine why they are that frightened but I don't walk in their shoes, but from what I listen to I am convinced their fear is real."So, despite hearing all these calls, you cannot imagine why these Jewish people are frightened, but even so you are convinced that their fear is real. What do you think that the Labour Party could do to decrease this fear, if the cause of it appears unknowable? Is it the threat of physical attack, imprisonment, future changes in the law or what? Or is on Twitter and Facebook? In which case, how Labour can control the filth, which the owners of these sites cannot control, is beyond me.

David Ainsworth ● 2540d

"The accusations of Islamophobia in the Conservative Party are an Islamist plot fabricated by Iran to try and get Corbyn elected so he can to protect the Islamic Republic's interests… sounds ridiculous right?"Sounds like some of the stuff that is spread about Corbyn. Where did you hear it?"So stop gaslighting Jews about Labour's antisemitism problem."Who is doing that here? Any examples of it?"Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity." (Wikipedia)

David Ainsworth ● 2540d

"Jewish representation in Labour is through the Jewish Labour Movement, one of the oldest socialist societies and originally founded in 1903. Jewish Voice for Labour is a tiny minority movement which arrived on the scene two years ago.""The JLM had become largely dormant but was revived following the election of Jeremy Corbyn" (Wikipedia)."As one Jewish critic observed: 'There are some 300,000 Jews in Britain. The Jewish Labour Movement claims to represent us all. So why were there fewer people at their AGM [annual general meeting] than at my Labour Party branch AGM?'"From:-https://mronline.org/2019/04/29/jewish-labour-movement-was-revived-to-deal-with-corbyn/You write "the Jewish antisemites who make up Jewish Voice for Labour." Can you explain why you think this? Emily Benn's grandfather Tony, quoted in the Jewish Chronicle (March 20, 2014):-"He said at a PSC event in January 2011 that he did not believe in a two-state solution. “The answer is a single state where Jews and Palestinians live together. To do that we have to dissolve Zionism,” he said."Was he an anti-Semite?

David Ainsworth ● 2540d

@ David 18.48Perhaps I should have said 'I cannot imagine why Corbyn and his anti-Semite cohorts in the Labour Party are making so many Jewish people feel so frightened'. Is that better?  This issue is discussed regularly on LBC so instead of asking me questions I suggest you listen to the calls yourself. Then you can judge whether the callers are genuine and hear the  reasons why they feel so frightened. Now I'll ask you a question, why do you constantly defend Corbyn?

Sue Hammond ● 2540d

"it sticks in our craw that someone who could be so mealy mouthed on the issue of anti-semitism might be prime minister.""At a speech Tuesday on “race and faith,” Corbyn said: “Anti-Semitism in any form is vile and wrong. It is an evil within our society. There is no place for it — and under a Labour government it will not be tolerated in any form whatsoever.”" (Washington Post 26/11/19). Sadly the Chief Rabbi managed to divert attention that day.

David Ainsworth ● 2540d

Fair enough, there is no solid reason which you can come up with for the fear. "Now I'll ask you a question, why do you constantly defend Corbyn?"Somebody has to do it. And I hate pile-ons and fact-light rightwing distortions. (Obviously if you have any leftwing distortions to deal with, I'd be less useful).

David Ainsworth ● 2540d

"The Labour activists are polluting the forum again."Polluting? Really?

David Ainsworth ● 2540d

I agree, David. 'Polluting' is  Inappropriate insult for people on this forum with whom he disagrees.

Jane Carter ● 2540d

True. Still, I'm not going to suggest any appropriate insults for him to use on opponents.

David Ainsworth ● 2540d

There are at least 2 usernames that keep starting threads (roughly one third of the front page) urging the Libdems to stand down or voters to abandon them. I’ve never seen them post on this forum before the election, and one usually starts the thread and two or three replies in the other agrees. So yes, they are polluting this forum as they (or he) is probably holed up in Labour activist HQ.

Stephen Walker ● 2539d

'Sadly the Chief Rabbi managed to divert attention that day'*The Chief Rabbi did not divert attention at all - he  brought to the fore the  concerns of British Jews, many of whom he represents. The Archbishop of Canterbury supported his comments. Do you think he is also conspiring against Corbyn?Meanwhile Corbyn was asked to apologise to the Jewish community 4 times by Andrew Neil (and no I'm not normally a huge fan of his) but he couldn't manage to say sorry. *Some people would call this  an anti semitic trope David.

Lucille Grant ● 2539d

"So yes, they are polluting this forum as they (or he) is probably holed up in Labour activist HQ.""probably holed up in Labour activist HQ"And you believe this because … ?

David Ainsworth ● 2539d

"Meanwhile Corbyn was asked to apologise to the Jewish community 4 times by Andrew Neil (and no I'm not normally a huge fan of his) but he couldn't manage to say sorry."And what right has Andrew Neil to ask this? Perhaps the majority of the British media might be asked to apologise to Jeremy Corbyn for 4 years of vile attacks. Would they do so?"*Some people would call this  an anti semitic trope David.""Diverting attention" really? An antisemitic trope? What would it have been, if I had said sometime 'Sadly Boris Johnson managed to divert attention that day'?

David Ainsworth ● 2539d

@David In answer to you point about Tony Benn: I've stated my position re the Israeli government policies on another thread but I would  hope that a two state solution could be found although this looks less likely than ever. I cannot answer for Tony Benn but yes,  to have one state with Israelis and Palestinians living side by side equally  means the dissolution of the Jewish state of Israel, which in effect means dissolving 'Zionism.'  For me personally (although others disagree with me as is their prerogative) that equates with being an anti semite as it is denying Jews their homeland. And no I haven't forgotten the Palestinians in all this many of whom do not support Hamas (btw Gaza has had no free elections since 2006). I feel for the Palestinians just as I feel for the Israelis (Jews, Christians and Muslims) bombarded with Hamas rockets which is rarely, if ever,  mentioned in MSM in the UK. Thanks to a complex but effective deterrent system Israelis are not dying by the thousands. But in the case of this General Election and  current Labour Party policies I fail to see  why it is  the Jewish state that they are  so invested in to the extent that they debate it at their  annual conference with  people flying Palestinian flags. Interference in another country's politics it seems.  Finally I shan't be  responding to any further comments from you on the subject but strangely enough before you began badgering me about Corbyn and anti semitism on this forum I had decided to vote for Fleur as the best of a bad  bunch. Thanks to you I won't be.

Lucille Grant ● 2539d

Daniel Shearer starts posting 01/11/19, has made c. 20 posts in a month, and they are all don’t vote Lib Dem or something disparaging about Sue Wixley. Every single one. A real person? I don’t think so. Labour campaign team for sure.

Stephen Walker ● 2539d

"I see far too much anti Jewish sentiment via comments on Twitter and Facebook, in the main from ardent followers of Jeremy Corbyn."And you know that they are all ardent followers of Corbyn because that's what they claim? I mean these people may be racists, but they are not going to lie about their own identity or politics, are they? And, of course, as Corbyn is their webmaster he could stop it all if he wanted to. It is not as if any opponent of Corbyn or Labour could create a false identity on Twitter in order to besmirch Labour. I mean even the Russians haven't been able to hide their identities on the web, have they? "The Labour Party shares with the BNP the 'accolade' of being investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Says it all really."The EHRC is preparing to rule on a dossier compiled by the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA), which has asked the body to open an investigation into “discrimination against Jews and victimisation of those who oppose antisemitism within the Labour party”. A second complaint, thought to be more detailed, was also filed by the Jewish Labour Movement (JLM). (Gdn 6/3/19)CAA founded 2014.JLM revived 2015.Says it all really.

David Ainsworth ● 2539d

"A real person? I don’t think so. Labour campaign team for sure."You will be reporting him then. The management here do not like that sort of thing on the Forum. It is against the Code of Conduct.

David Ainsworth ● 2539d

"to have one state with Israelis and Palestinians living side by side equally  means the dissolution of the Jewish state of Israel, which in effect means dissolving 'Zionism.'  For me personally (although others disagree with me as is their prerogative) that equates with being an anti semite as it is denying Jews their homeland."We all have to share our homelands, don't we? Is the UK diminished by sharing? The Palestinians are having to share."strangely enough before you began badgering me about Corbyn and anti semitism on this forum".I don't think that I was badgering. Counter-badgering if anything.

David Ainsworth ● 2539d

Well, Boris is diverting attention everyday!As far as I understand it, the media have the right and obligation of asking awkward if not at times difficult questions.  Questions that neither you nor I are able to ask directly - let alone get a straight answer from any politician.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2539d

Stand Down Please! Have you heard yourself? Almost begging, have a bit of self respect, grow a pair snowflake.

Mick Cunningham ● 2538d

Oh dear ...😂

Sue Hammond ● 2538d

But this thread was started by David Parker who has made many posts on various subjects on this forum, dating back to 2012. So which of you is not a "real person" but instead someone trying to boost their favoured party? I'd say it was you.

Michael Winstanley ● 2537d

My thoughts too Sue!

Daniel Shearer ● 2536d