Forum Topic

Corbyn Says Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi Should Not Have Been Killed

Jeremy Corbyn blasted the execution of brutal Islamic State warlord Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi today, insisting that arresting the terrorist should have been 'the right thing to do.'Rumour has it that Corbyn wanted to invite the killer for tea and talks in the gentile atmosphere of the HoC tea room. Top of Corbyn's agenda was to be a discussion with the terrorist about living in a world of justice and peace ...

Sue Hammond ● 2555d29 Comments

"If it would have been possible to arrest him - I don't know the details of the circumstances at the time, I've only seen various statements put out by the US about it - surely that would have been the right thing to do."Why wouldn't have been the right thing to do if possible?

Matt Palmer ● 2555d

Gentle atmosphere, surely?

David Ainsworth ● 2555d

Interesting, as the official record is that al-Bagdadi committed suicide by activating an explosive vest. So either someone is suggesting the US administration's view is untrue or one would have to question the veracity of the report about what Corbyn said. (I haven't seen any reports myself but haven't looked either.) My understanding was that besides al-Bagdadi committing suicide two other people wearing suicide vest were shot by the US military for self protection, and two (?) others were captured. Seems a fairly reasonable action for the circumstances. However, there might have been some value in capturing al-Bagdadi alive to gain intelligence information and avoid him becoming a martyr? But he seemed to make that decision himself?

Michael Ixer ● 2555d

Have you noticed Corbyn doesn’t even close he’s gate behind him when he leaves his house.

Nick Gulliford ● 2555d

Michael, if you think this POS would have been compliant and given any useful intelligence to the US security services, you are extremely delusional.

Sue Hammond ● 2555d

"Have you noticed Corbyn doesn’t even close he’s gate behind him when he leaves his house."He's got a gate!? Oh, there's posh!It could be a covert signal that he believes in open borders, of course!

David Ainsworth ● 2554d

"Michael, if you think this POS would have been compliant and given any useful intelligence to the US security services, you are extremely delusional."How well would you stand up to torture, do you think?

David Ainsworth ● 2554d

Of course we wouldn’t want a trial as it may reveal other details about the organisation. Finances etc. This way no questions asked and none answered.

Ed Robinson ● 2554d

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was killed in a superbly-planned and executed special forces operation. By their nature such operations are carried out quickly, before the target has an opportunity to realise what is happening and organise its resistance. I doubt the US special forces ever expected to take al-Baghdadi alive, and certainly could not have after he was found to be wearing an explosive vest and indeed committed suicide.When is Jeremy Corbyn going to accept that men like al-Baghdadi are terrorists and an enemy of everything we believe in as a democratic country?

Leslie McDonnell ● 2554d

The answer to that Leslie, going by Corbyn's past history, is never.

Lucille Grant ● 2554d

"How well would you stand up to torture, do you think?"What a stupid irrelevant question. 🙄

Sue Hammond ● 2554d

Rd, do you really think Baghdadi, or any other Jihadi killer would have answered any questions truthfully?  Most of them wouldn't know the inner workings of IS or its finances etc, and those that did would probably just spout a pack of lies anyway.

Sue Hammond ● 2554d

"do you really think Baghdadi, or any other Jihadi killer would have answered any questions truthfully?"Better have a word with the CIA, then, since they evidently thought they could get results by torturing terrorists. For example, they waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed more than 180 times, and Abu Zubaydah went through all 12 of the agency’s “enhanced interrogation techniques”, including being beaten, deprived of sleep and locked in a small box - and he was waterboarded  more than 80 times. Whether they actually got anything useful from this abuse, is a different question.

Richard Carter ● 2554d

I personally think that Corbyn was tactically naive and  somewhat self-centred to refer in an election battle to this issue in the way that he did.Most voters are totally disinterested in the topic and he must know how his political opponents and the MSM would use it against him.An appropriate response would have been bland and non-controversial whilst obviously showing satisfaction that this evil person, under whatever circumstances, is no longer around to terrorise, in the main, people in the Middle East.But Corbyn has a strong belief that international affairs should be conducted under due process of the law.Shooting dead an opponent however despicable is not how things are done.If they were the many African and ex-Yugoslavian war criminals would be dead and not just in a Dutch jail having been exposed and humiliated.I assume most posters (not all) in this thread would agree with him on this principle.And I am sure it is quite plausible that the US and Trump would have prefered him to be captured and not killed.What a photo and Tweeting opportunity it would have been for the Donald to have lead him through a Washington perp walk in chains and an orange suit !But circumstances probably made this objective unlikely and what happened, happened.But let's look at what Corbyn actually said according to Sky News -"If we believe, as we do, in international law and justice and the power of the International Court of Justice, then we should do everything we can to bring people, where they deserve to go on trial, to be put on trial."He added (NB): "Him being removed from the scene is a very good thing. If it would have been possible to arrest him - I don't know the details of the circumstances at the time, I've only seen various statements put out by the US about it - surely that would have been the right thing to do."If we want to live in a world of peace and justice, we should practice it as well."So those that say Corbyn is a supporter of terrorism are deliberate liars.That includes Johnson: but then what's new.

John Hawkes ● 2554d

Whilst I do not regret the death of al-Baghdadi I have mixed emotions when it comes to the use of torture. There can be no doubt that intelligence can be gleaned this way. Intelligence gathering is akin to putting together a jigsaw puzzle. Every piece located and properly placed whilst usually not immediately important in itself helps to visualise and complete the bigger picture. That said I am deeply conscious that in 1945 considerable effort was expended both in Europe and Japan in bringing to justice Gestapo and other agents who had actively tortured captured Allied personnel and resistance workers for information. Why have attitues changed so much?

Leslie McDonnell ● 2554d

"Whether they actually got anything useful from this abuse, is a different question"My point entirely.

Sue Hammond ● 2554d

I don't have mixed emotions about torture. I am clear that it is an abhorrent and immoral practice that reduces any society that uses it or authorises it to being barely and better than the people it is fighting against. We rightly outlaw its use and prosecute those who are found to have taken part in it, or even to have assisted others to do it.

Sean Hodges ● 2554d

So how many have been put on trial so far?

Ed Robinson ● 2554d

State sponsored execution come at a price.Capture and trial should always remain the preferred option.Have we put anyone on trial for war crimes?

Ed Robinson ● 2554d

Is torturing opponents in order to obtain information more abhorrent than killing opponents?

David Ainsworth ● 2553d

People are missing the point.The political kudos around the world, and especially in the Middle East, of the 'west' (here the US) successfully tracking this man down with intelligence from his own kind or regional enemies, putting him on trial with due process we use for our own and then locking him away for life to be forgotten, would have been huge.And his humiliation would have been massive.He probably has little information the west is not privy to via modern intelligence gathering anyway.Unfortunately too many, some seemingly on this site, prefer a grand and violent gesture from the comfort of their armchairs.No political nous I'm afraid.Oh and I see no one has stood corrected on what Corbyn said and thinks about this incident.

John Hawkes ● 2553d

"Oh and I see no one has stood corrected on what Corbyn said and thinks about this incident.""Print the legend", I guess.

David Ainsworth ● 2553d

If one believes in democracy and fair justice shouldn't the aim always to be to capture and put criminals on trial? Surely, that's how one gets the moral high ground and proves that one is better than the criminals carrying out despicable acts rather than risk being accused of stooping to their level? Obviously, the difficulties and practicalities of such actions won't always allow that and one has too make it clear to those taking the enforcement actions on our behalf that they have support in being able to take necessary measures to protect themselves. So there is always the risk that the target, collaborators or innocent bystanders will be killed or hurt in such actions; I guess that's the price of justice for the greater good? (Is that so different from law enforcement allowing hot pursuit of stolen cars where if the car crashes the driver, passengers or other road users may be killed or hurt?) In this instance the target chose to end his  own life with his suicide vest, this often seems to be the case in US mass shootings were the perpetrator  turns the gun on themselves, presumably to avoid justice? When terrorists do this it implies time they are unsure of themselves; if they really believed in their cause wouldn't they want their day in court to justify their actions?

Michael Ixer ● 2553d

It’s impossible to stop them becoming a Martyr, the best we can do is make it impossible to make a pilgrimage to a burial site, as is why we’re now dumping them in the sea.... Probably near Shark dense waters.

Thomas Jones ● 2553d

"we’re now dumping them in the sea.... Probably near Shark dense waters."  Could a dead person, who had blown themselves up, be bothered about sharks, really?

David Ainsworth ● 2553d

So there is always the risk that the target, collaborators or innocent bystanders will be killed or hurt in such actions; I guess that's the price of justice for the greater good? (Is that so different from law enforcement allowing hot pursuit of stolen cars where if the car crashes the driver, passengers or other road users may be killed or hurt?) To be honest I  think is is very different because stealing cars, while obviously wrong,is not a crime equivalent to carrying out acts of terrorism.

Jane Carter ● 2553d

"To be honest I  think is is very different because stealing cars, while obviously wrong,is not a crime equivalent to carrying out acts of terrorism."And on another point, prevention of car theft does not justify risking the lives of passers-by.

David Ainsworth ● 2553d

I wasn't trying to suggest there is in any way equivalence between car theft and terrorism just pointing out there were instances when bystanders had suffered as a result of law enforcement action against both activities. I think it's not unreasonable to say we shouldn't risk lives to stop car theft but are we then saying because of the more serious nature of terrorism and the potentially greater benefits then it is ok if some people in the locality are inadvertently harmed because of the overall perceived benefits? On a different topic, I assume the sharks have no objection to this dietary supplement ... I hope any substances harmful to sharks are removed first...

Michael Ixer ● 2553d

'When is Jeremy Corbyn going to accept that men like al-Baghdadi are terrorists and an enemy of everything we believe in as a democratic country'?Mr McDonnellAm I right in thinking that you were once a Conservative Councillor ?When you voted on issues, did you ever read your brief and check for the facts of the matter or did you simply vote on prejudice ?If you have evidence that Corbyn does not think men like al-Baghdadi are terrorists then please point me to it.And don't use what he said recently on the matter as my earlier post categorically disproves what you claim are his views so expressed.What I believe in 'as a democratic country' is truth and honesty - something we more and more lack as your Party leader more and more opens his mouth.Please don't follow his example.

John Hawkes ● 2552d