Forum Topic

Labour  and the Election

If Labour win and spend months negotiating a new deal to leave the EU, surely that's the option they will then support & promote at the (2nd) referendum they've promised? They're hardly likely to work on a deal and then tell their Labour voters to choose remain. They'll want support for their own 'Brexit Deal'. So once again Corbyn is sitting on the fence and Labour is NOT a party that Remainers can vote for.

Lucille Grant ● 2567d20 Comments

Agree Lucille.Labour candidates in London are doing what they did in the last election and swearing themselves as remain but their party is not - and you cannot escape this fact.Labour abstained or voted against a People's Vote 6 out of 8 times. They may be offering a PV but they have not said how they would campaign.I don't trust them with this.

Claire Anderson ● 2567d

This is what Labour MP Ian Austin thinks of his Leader.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iaide-nrOJc

Paul Game ● 2567d

Hello Lucille,I was just eyeing the news and Farage was on.It had an amazing "deja-vu" feeling from 2016.I personally believe that neither the conservatives nor labour are now electable.  This coming election is another referendum in all but name.Bearing in mind that both Tory and Labour are Brexit parties and we need a real opposition, I wholeheartedly think the historical Tory-Labour options must change and new blood should come in.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2567d

"Independent" MP Ian Austin.

David Ainsworth ● 2567d

Without doubt Ivonne - the two party state is past its sell by date, both with incompetent leaders  neither of whom are statesmen.

Lucille Grant ● 2567d

That may be so, but the election is on December 12th, with the parties which we have. There is the well-known joke about a tourist abroad who asks one of the locals for directions to a particular town. The local replies: ‘Well sir, if I were you, I wouldn’t start from here’.

David Ainsworth ● 2567d

Oh yes it is. One less seat for the Tories is good for Remain - albeit that there is a vanishing chance of that. It is also good for for supporting a broad and open trade deal with the EU if we leave and opposing a move to US standards on emplyment, environment, animal welfare and consumer rights standards.The more seats Libdems take off Labour, the happier I will be, but Putney is not a Labour/LibDem contest - only the Conservatives or Labour can win. Just look at the 2017 result - if only those few thousand people who moved from Labour to LibDem had stuck with Labour, Justine would have lost.Corbyn won't be around for ever.

Michael Winstanley ● 2567d

@David Worth reading John Mann herehttps://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/john-mann-30-000-people-stood-up-to-the-blackshirts-on-holbeck-moor-we-need-to-learn-from-that-1-10078192/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Lucille Grant ● 2566d

A question, not a statement; do you think a rise in antisemitism is part of a general rise in xenophobia in the current political climate, or are there other reasons for it? I assume a prime minister who has made jokes about people dressing as letters boxes doesn't help in that it might make others feel free to say such things but not mean it just as a throwaway comment playing to their readership? Is this the first stage in intolerance that can lead to more serious action? (OK, not just "a" question.)

Michael Ixer ● 2566d

One more question, is this people not changing their views but feeling able to express them whereas before they bottled them up because they felt they were socially unacceptable? 

Michael Ixer ● 2566d

Remain or Leave? Without stating what parts you are for or against it just sounds like tribalism.We need to some how unite this divided country and just using Remain or Brexit terms doesn’t really get anyone anywhere.There are all sorts of deals to be had. A Norway type deal for example could be done very quickly.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36639261

Ed Robinson ● 2566d

John Mann (Brexiteer, now a Lord) says:-"“If you're Jewish, you are under greater threat in this country than if you're not. The problem is increasing.“And there are Jewish people leaving the country because they don't see a future in this country."And yet the Jewish Chronicle says:-"Aliyah from Britain has dropped for a third year in succession, according to figures from the Jewish Agency.The number of UK Jews who left for a new life in Israel in 2018 was 534, slightly down from 550 in 2017 and considerably fewer than the 729 in 2016 and 770 in 2015."https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/aliyah-from-britain-falls-for-third-year-in-a-row-1.481698

David Ainsworth ● 2566d

I'm sure the Labour team has already mapped out an alternative/better/softer/more acceptable deal behind the scenes with the EU negotiators so I don't think it would take long for it to be dusted down and presented to the People (assuming it gets through parliament). Then Labour has promised us a vote to either go with their improved deal or vote Remain. It really doesn't matter what Corbyn or anyone else thinks or does or doesn't campaign for, as the decision would be ours. The Labour package does seem the most plausible route to Remain, for those who seek it.

Peter Evans ● 2566d

Farage supported a Norway style deal before the referendum.  Now he wants a so-called clean break, realistically an impossibility. But at least he keeps himself in the game for a few more weeks. One suspects that is his sole motivation.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2566d

Michael I think social media has made it easier for people to express xenophobic and racist views plus the fact that many people just have not been taught history as the shocking example on The Apprentice  illustrated. Ignorance means history can been repeated again.

Lucille Grant ● 2566d

David: Jews do go elsewhere besides Israel.

Lucille Grant ● 2566d

I suspect there's some Farage/Trump/Johnson/Cummings/Putin Breibart-style chicanery surrounding the so-called Brexit so-called funded by I don't know who Party. It's already served its purpose by pushing the Tories closer to the no Brexit right by threatening to stand against them, so now they don't have to. Farage pulled the same trick in his UKIP days by pushing Cameron away from husky hugging and into calling the dreaded referendum that's about to destroy this great nation of ours and divide its people as never before in recent times.

Peter Evans ● 2566d

..and go there for all kinds of reasons besides feeling threatened.

Peter Evans ● 2566d

Absolutely Peter. This all began because Cameron was s$$$ing himself that Tory voters and right wing MPs would join and vote for UKIP. Now, instead, it's the One Nation Tories who have left the party.

Lucille Grant ● 2566d

"Jews do go elsewhere besides Israel."True. I did not express it very well. However, if what John Mann said is true:-"there are Jewish people leaving the country because they don't see a future in this country.",then I would expect that there might be some upward movement in those figures, and there is not. Of course, the 2019 figures may show a change. The Jewish Chronicle (24th October 2019) says:-"An overwhelming 78 per cent of British Jews would prefer a no deal Brexit over the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister, a new poll has confirmed."https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/overwhelming-majority-of-british-jews-would-prefer-no-deal-brexit-to-jeremy-corbyn-government-1.490590A no deal Brexit. Rather more likely than Corbyn becoming Prime Minister now.

David Ainsworth ● 2566d