In another thread someone (Paul I think) asked to hear from remainers.Here's my last post (probably, at least until A50 is revoked). I stopped posting here a while back, and have tried to avoid reading it, the views of many posters here are so entrenched that there's little point. There is no debate here, it's just constant restatement of the same old view points and no-one is going to budge. Digging up what politicians said years ago is the latest silly game.> "the establishment wouldn't let a clean Brexit happen."Not only that, the current Government itself is increasingly looking like it doesn't want to let Brexit happen.If it hadn't attempted to prorogue Parliament for so long there might have been enough time to debate the WAB fully. Instead they play delay tactics and then tried and force it through at the last minute where, quite rightly, the majority of MPs object to doing so without enough scrutiny.Of course, the media are directed to point out the MPs who voted against the programme motion are somehow the real causes of the delay. Standard PR framing and diversion tactics.A Queen's Speech was apparently fundamental and required prorogation, but the QS hasn't even been debated in the HoC after its introduction, and with the recent attempt to shoehorn the WAB through before 31st October it wasn't scheduled to be debated until after the October 31st deadline. What was the point of the prorogation if it wasn't another Tory led delay tactic?The PM is trying everything he can not to be seen as the cause of any of these problems and the media is happily helping him spin it that way. He didn't want to write the letter that the Benn Act required. He wrote two letters and childishly only signed one. "I'm not going to ask Brussels for an extension." Yet he has done exactly that by sending the letter, and the EU is almost certainly going to grant one. The lack of a signature and the second letter was yet another diversion. Luckily the EU are adult enough to accept the letters (signed or not) for what they were, a request for an extension.When the PM met with Corbyn today to discuss a timetable to debate the WAB it's no surrpise they can't agree to any sensible timetable because any sensible timetable would take it over the 31st October.The PM said he'd secure Brexit by 31st October and he is going to fail to do so. He doesn't want this failure because it all but destroys his credibility in a subsequent General Election.He tried to goad the opposition into calling a Vote of No Confidence, but they weren't falling for that before a no-deal Brexit was definitely off the table. He then tries to blame the opposition that by failing to try and topple his Government they are also trying to delay Brexit. Everyone is at fault except himself.It's not him extending the deadline to Jan 31st - it's the EU and the Benn Act. If the EU give an even longer "flextension" then it's definitely their fault for an even longer delay because that's not even what he asked for when he didn't ask for the extension that he did actually have to ask for.He actively chose to throw away what little majority he had by expelling those Tory rebels by withdrawing the whip. This makes no sense whatsoever unless...Everything he is doing is about not delivering Brexit, or trying to default to a no-deal Brexit, but he (and Cummings) are spinning it in such a way that the blame is being placed on everyone/anyone but him.If it was the lack of time it's because the PM threw away weeks of Parliament in an unnecessary prorogation and then pulled everything together at the 11th hour.If it is the lack of support from within his own party it's because the PM threw away his slim majority by withdrawing the whip from so many of his own MPs.If it is the lack of support from MPs in general it's because his deal might not actually be in the best interest of the country. "Ignoring the will of the people" is just a soundbite thrown to the media. "Surrender act", etc. Calculated distractions from the fundamental cause of the problem.I'm beginning to think that this is all calculated incompetence to ensure that he (and his party) don't deliver Brexit at all. Mostly because the party that does end up delivering it (even if there end up being a few stray sunlit uplands) will be tarred with every single negative aspect of Brexit.That or they secretly want a no-deal Brexit as that means there's no silly WAB to deal with, no Parliamentary majority required, no transition period that will take another 2+ years to plough through, absolutely no chance of any short term sunlit uplands, and they can get on with the jolly simple task of negotiating the future relationship with the EU and the rest of the world whilst vast swathes of the country burn. If they manage to engineer a no-deal Brexit and make everyone think that it's the fault of anyone but themselves then it'll be a political masterstroke. But the people won't win at all, far from it.Labour don't want to take over yet (I'm not sure they even want to take over whilst A50 looms, who would want to risk being the party that ended up actually having to implement Brexit?). Whichever party does that will alienate a significant portion of its voters. This is why their position seems to be "we'll renegotiate a better deal and then put it to the people in a confirmatory vote". That way the people will have all of the details (rather than a vague promise of a golden Brexit unicorn for each and every person) and can make a proper informed choice and, most importantly, the people will shoulder the blame for any negative aspects as that would be the "will of the people". The Tories can't go back and offer this confirmatory vote as they'll be seen to be weaseling out of their existing promises.I think most Leavers think that Brexit is akin to moving house, but they're putting the emphasis on the selling part: "we've got a good offer for the house, just sell it and take the money! Winning!" That's the easy part though. You've now got to find a new house to live in. There are a whole bunch on the market, one has fewer bedrooms than you need, another one with the right number of bedrooms doesn't have any garden space and the kitchen is a bit poky. One that otherwise looks perfect has no central heating and dry rot throughout and is going to be horrible to live in whilst you have to do it up. Every single one is a compromise. But, heh, shouting "Just get on with it" is a lot easier than facing up to the idea that maybe staying put might actually be the least worst option available.Anyway, I've spent far too long on this. I look forward to the day when A50 is revoked and I'll start reading this forum again, maybe. (Hopefully I can avoid picking this particular scab.)To those people on here who voted leave: Good luck. Paraphrasing someone on here: "Get over it, you won! LOL"Every day that Brexit fails to be delivered increases the odds that A50 will eventually be revoked. My guess is that it'll be revoked after some form of second referendum or confirmatory vote, with the concession that we have further referenda on continued EU membership every few years, and we never get close to A50 actually happening again.
Alex Greenbank ● 2576d