Forum Topic

Grubby Business

Justine Greening opines that its "totally wrong to prorogue parliament. Everyone can see this for what it is, a grubby attempt to force No Deal."To which I reply it was totally wrong for JG to advocate a second referendum. Everyone could see it was a grubby attempt to force Remain. Moral,politcs is a grubby business  peopled by those who roll in it.

Hugh Thompson ● 2630d18 Comments

"To which I reply it was totally wrong for JG to advocate a second referendum."Why? The first one was indecisive. Near 50/50. Totally indecisive if used as the basis for a revolutionary change of important and long-established relationships.

David Ainsworth ● 2630d

Ms Greening has been consistent with her view for the need to hold a second referendum for a while. In fact, her views on Brexit have been consistent all along unlike Johnson who voted for Mrs May's deal on its third submission and was against suspending parliament a few weeks ago.

Michael Ixer ● 2630d

Agree David - it was also an 'advisory' referendum.

Lucille Grant ● 2630d

As I recall Justine Greening called for a second referendum after Theresa May's deal was defeated for the second time. However this was not to be a 'first past the post' referendum, but was to ask voters to choose from three options: May’s final deal, a no-deal Brexit or staying in the EU.Seemed sensible enough to me at the time.

Caroline Whitehead ● 2629d

@Lucille & DavidStill in denial. 😸

Sue Hammond ● 2629d

"Still in denial."Certainly. At least until Boris "Il Douche" prorogues the right to deny.

David Ainsworth ● 2629d

Oh apparently the brave and forthright Sajid Javid has deleted his Tweet:-‘You don’t deliver democracy by trashing democracy – you can’t just shut down Parliament’.Well, that was more than 2 months ago, things change, truths change, you're either with us or against us. Power is the only truth.And the poor chap still has a "fantastic" relationship with the Great Leader, Boris, despite the sacking of Javid's special adviser. Actually two of his advisers have been sacked, but, not his fault, nobody asked him. "Fantastic" - some fantasy.

David Ainsworth ● 2629d

All conservative and labour MPs were elected on a manifesto of delivering Brexit.  Time to deliver and toe the party line.

Robert Wheeler ● 2629d

JG was not only voted in on a manifesto of respecting Brexit but she was a  minister in the government  which advocated,promoted and staged the referendum. Then of course she lost her place on the top table and decided on what many think of as revenge.

Hugh Thompson ● 2628d

None of them were elected on a manifesto of 'No Deal'

Lucille Grant ● 2628d

Yes Hugh, you are correct that JG was part of the government who advocated, promoted and staged the referendum.  The manifestos for both Conservatives and Labour for the 2017 election indicated that the referendum result was to be respected. The what was then know but not the how.The issue at the moment is Brexit as it stands and not the referendum result.Since the Withdrawal Agreement was published, JG has been very consistent in her approach.  As always, the devil is in the detail and Brexit is a complete shambles.  Also, do you remember Parliament voting strongly no to a no-deal? JG has represented Putney very well indeed.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2628d

Correct, Lucille. The Tory manifesto pledge was to ensure a “smooth and orderly” exit and a “deep and special partnership” with the EU.  Not an undemocratic No Deal.It is Johnson who is now attempting to breach his own party’s manifesto promise and he is only PM because a fraction of 1% of the population voted for him. Our democracy is in a real mess.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2628d

I seem to remember JG declined a position in the government as she wanted to remain in education to continue promoting her ideal of social mobility? When that wasn't on offer she felt that a back bench position was more appropriate. (Let's face out the Eton mafia seem to be driving the Tories further away from any idea of social mobility.) As others have said, given no one has a mandate for a 'no deal' Brexit, and Brexit  has become a complete shambles, her proposal for another referendum seems sensible and appropriate. I'm sure if Johnson and his cabal manage to renegotiate a reasonable deal she'll reconsider that.  

Michael Ixer ● 2628d

Boris Johnson's No Deal option in operation:-“I mean to show you of my strength, yet greater;As with amaze shall strike all who behold.This uttered, straining all his nerves he bowed;As with the force of winds and waters pentWhen mountains tremble, these two massy pillarsWith horrible convulsion to and froHe tugged, he struck, till down they came and drewThe whole roof after them, with burst of thunderUpon the heads of all who sat beneath.”(John Milton, Samson Agonistes)

David Ainsworth ● 2628d

Splendid quote David!

Caroline Whitehead ● 2628d

Thanks. All down to GCE EngLit. Not really a Milton chap by choice then. Silly me, I guess, looking at it now.

David Ainsworth ● 2628d

Sadly, when I think of Brexit it's more likely Tennyson's "Break, Break, Break" that comes to mind 😞 (Not that poetry is my strong point but I did do O level Eng Lit as well! 📖)

Michael Ixer ● 2628d

"Break, Break, Break" the law now it seems."Michael Gove has sparked outrage from across the political spectrum after refusing to confirm that the Government would abide by legislation blocking a no-deal Brexit.The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster suggested that ministers would “wait to see” what law was passed by MPs this week before deciding whether or not to take it forward.His comments were described as “staggering” and “breathtaking”, leading to accusations that the Government now regarded itself as above the law and was a direct threat to democracy."https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/michael-gove-sparks-outrage-as-he-suggests-government-may-ignore-law-blocking-no-deal-brexit/

David Ainsworth ● 2628d