Forum Topic

The Boris & Angela Love-In

Listened to their press conference live on LBC and the meeting sounded very positive to me. 👍🏻 I can see a deal being agreed that will allow Boris and the EU to come to an arrangement over the backstop without either party losing face. Bring on Brexit! 🇬🇧

Sue Hammond ● 2639d43 Comments

Sue, we need to share a drink soon. I cannot believe there are people signing up for the liberal party. I can only assume they wear orange ties or smoke dope. It’s like supporting Everton in premier league a waste of time .

Nick Gulliford ● 2639d

Ps I voted to stay in Europe but since I have seen so many moaning snowflake people thinking that the Greatest most tolerant country in the world will suffer, I know we will get through it even better for my kids and I. I have realised it was the worst voting decision I have ever made.

Nick Gulliford ● 2639d

Well, let's hope Boris can find the solution to the Backstop in the next 30 days. Good luck to him!

Caroline Whitehead ● 2639d

Nick and Sue,The "love-in" was great and here is what was reported on the BBC:"Speaking at a news conference alongside Prime Minister Boris Johnson in Berlin, she stressed it would be up to the UK to offer a workable plan. The PM said he was "more than happy" with that "blistering timetable".He accepted the "onus" was on the UK, but said he believed there was "ample scope" for a new deal to be reached."Supposedly, the wretched woman who allowed all the immigrants into Germany has empathy with the UK.Angela Merkel was always keen to help the UK, other countries were not.  Let us see how Johnson progresses.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2639d

' ...the wretched woman who allowed all the immigrants into Germany has empathy with the UK'Ivonne this seems a rather uncharitable description of Angela Merkel who, as you say, is trying to help the UK or are you being ironic?

Jane Carter ● 2639d

Hello Jane,I am being extremely ironic!So many people critized her for allowing immigrants into Germany when Angela Merkel herself was brought up in East Germany behind the wall....And it is very true that she has always tried to help the UK, even of the Government officials were shooting themselves in the foot!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2639d

I think people are interpreting this exchange wrongly: as if this is an optimistic proposal from Merkel. What seems to me much more likely is that she was saying, in effect: "Go ahead, Johnson, see if you can solve a problem in a month that it took us three years to reach a conclusion on." In other words, she was just leaving it to Johnson to come up with a solution, but supposing it extremely unlikely. But we'll see...

Richard Carter ● 2639d

I know we will get through it even better for my kids and I. Nick, how will things be better for you and your kids?

Jane Carter ● 2639d

I agree with you Richard.But I do not think that Angela Merkel wishes to see the UK "sink and die".She agreed that there is room to manoeuvre as far as the Withdrawal Agreement is concerned, but she did not give a slight inkling as to what this may be.  She did say, Boris Johnson, you solve the problem.And here is the heart of the problem!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2639d

Because long term us Brits will benefit from not being weighed down by the Millions we give to lazy crappy European nations for nothing back. It’s pain for three to four years and my job has suffered but we will benefit long term. Just my view Jane. Brits come through everything remember. let’s not be afraid. Everyone wants to live here, spend her, visit here, deal with us still.

Nick Gulliford ● 2639d

I am greatly looking forward to the opportunities for new trade agreements with America and the various countries that make up the British Commonwealth.In addition when it comes immigration why should we be forced to give priority to Romanians over our friends from Australia and NZ ?

Mike Harris ● 2639d

Nick, did they mention to you about three years of pain if we voted leave? just asking...If you check your tax statement you'll see that 0.7% of your money was being sent to the EU. Seemed like a very small price to pay to be able to freely move,live, work in the EU and receive reciprocal benefits.All those people who are about to lose their free healthcare across Europe are going to be moving home and putting a right drain on the NHS and other services.

Matt Palmer ● 2638d

@Nick 21.08.19 20.10Morning Nick. What a great post! 👍🏻 So glad you have realised the error of your ways😉and joined me with a spirit of positivity for our, and your children's future.Now the usual little fly-in-the ointment, Macron, has climbed up onto his soapbox again (presumably using a stepladder😸) and he's rattling his pretend sabre. This wannabe Bonaparte is spouting rubbish that renegotiating the withdrawal agreement is not an option. Well that wasn't even mentioned and he needs to remember that the EU desperately wants our 39 billion. If he does get carried away with his own importance (quite likely🙄) and is foolish enough to veto a new deal he could be responsible for forcing the U.K. into a no-deal Brexit, and for the EU losing our exit dosh.  Could he really be that stupid? P.S. I've been teetotal for about 10 years but I will definitely have a tipple 🍷on Independence Day.🇬🇧

Sue Hammond ● 2638d

Let's see what Johnson's administration comes up with on the Irish border in the next 30 days now he's accepted it's the UK's responsibility to devise an alternative, and what Macron and Johnson say after meeting today. I wonder which language they'll hold today's meeting in. Will Johnson show off his fluent French?

Michael Ixer ● 2638d

It is a little known fact that when Macron and Merkel are in private meetings they speak English to each other. Our European legacy!

Jonathan Callaway ● 2638d

You really love digging a sabre into Macon don't you Sue? I'm surprised at your animosity - after all you want Brexit and he isn't helping  Britain to stay in Europe. He must be doing something right since he became President - the  high unemployment rate has dropped significantly from 10% in 2016 to 8.5% now, a 10 year low https://www.thelocal.fr/20190814/frances-unemployment-rate-falls-again-to-new-10-year-low Their economy has also grown https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/france. They are above us in the GDP ranks and India has leap fogged both of us. http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-gdp/

Lucille Grant ● 2638d

I've been saying this for months :-( https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/aug/22/brexit-latest-news-macron-boris-warns-boris-johnson-brexit-could-turn-uk-into-vassal-state-of-us-ahead-of-their-meeting-in-paris-live-news

Lucille Grant ● 2638d

@Lucille 09.48Good morning Lucille. I probably show as much animosity towards Macron as he shows to the UK. He is not our friend. Are you impressed by him? If you have a vote in France would you vote for him next time?You may be right in Macron aiding and abetting Brexit. My feeling is that him and Boris will not hit it off. Boris is a typical alpha male and Macron is the complete opposite so I imagine he will try and compete with Boris by taking a combative stance. However at the end of the day he will do what Merkel tells him to do.

Sue Hammond ● 2638d

Sure I would vote for Macron if I had a vote in France. My partner voted for him and will again. As I pointed out upthread  France is in a  better situation since he became President.

Lucille Grant ● 2638d

I suspect the problem is that Macron,Merkel et al are exasperated, confused and fed up with Brexiters not really  knowing or even understanding what they want. Looking at these quotes on FB this morning even Mr #1 Brexit  seems to be sending a message of ambiguity.why was the Norway model so attractive I may 16 but unacceptable in Feb 19. Brexit is a mess: why would a civilised country  with the fifth largest and growing economy want to throw itself into a period of unpredictability, possible chaos and likely recession and economic damage, whilst causing worry and uncertainty for millions of European and UK citizens who have decided to migrate and contribute with their labour and knowledge in other EU countries to create economic growth and a stable society for the whole of Europe?

Michael Ixer ● 2638d

@Jonathan. That's interesting, although English will remain an official EU language because it's one in Eire. Isn't it really a legacy of the colonial period? I believe it's used as a sort of common language in India and other places, and - let's  be honest - American "English" is a de facto international language now, isn't it?  I remember in the 1970s when I was going to Norway to work on an IT project in the oil industry (and young and naive) asking if they had manuals in English: for the Norwegians it was a case of ROFL; US IT companies translating manuals into Norwegian, what's the English expression - "when pigs fly"! 🙂 Similarly, when I was doing similar work in Copenhagen the Danish project manager used to correct the grammar and spelling of another of our English colleagues ...

Michael Ixer ● 2638d

"Brexit is a mess: why would a civilised country  with the fifth largest and growing economy want to throw itself into a period of unpredictability, possible chaos and likely recession and economic damage"Maybe Wikipedia has the answer:-"Wrecking is the practice of taking valuables from a shipwreck which has foundered or run aground close to shore. Often an unregulated activity of opportunity in coastal communities, wrecking has been subjected to increasing regulation and evolved into what is now known as marine salvage." "Mr #1 Brexit  seems to be sending a message of ambiguity".Perhaps there will be rich pickings for the astute, in the confusion and downfall? Perhaps these false lights are from wreckers?Wrexit.

David Ainsworth ● 2638d

Most global trade is conducted in English, certainly throughout the Middle East.  Macron, speaking in French, is now describing himself as the "hard man" of the EU.  Oh dear.

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2638d

I wonder if Johnson and Macron are secretly enjoying the engaging of their egotistical antlers in an updated Greek tragedy? Dr Merkel probably thinks they're as unpredictable as molecules in her quantum chemistry PhD thesis?

Michael Ixer ● 2638d

English is also the official language of Air Traffic Control worldwide.It's not everything, but body language means a lot.  Angela and Boris seemed to have very good rapport and even with Macron there was a lot of back slapping and man-shoulder-squeezing.  I see this as positive, touch Teresa and she looked very awkward, bless.

Bunny Payne ● 2638d

The analysis in the Times of the two meetings Johnson has held rather bears out the caution I expressed earlier when I suggested that Merkel's response had been misinterpreted by Brexiteers and that an agreement was as far away as ever:"The most important thing to understand about Angela Merkel’s 30-day timetable is that it was not a statement of optimism.She was not saying, as some in Westminster appear to think, that Germany and the European Union believe that an alternative to the backstop can be found in the next month.Nor was she saying that she — or Germany or the EU — was prepared to come up with an alternative to the backstop on the UK’s behalf. Indeed, her position remains that the withdrawal agreement cannot be reopened, meaning that any changes drawn up in a frantic four weeks would nevertheless still only be written into the political declaration."https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/angela-merkels-30-day-gambit-piles-pressure-on-boris-johnson-ch559t90r

Richard Carter ● 2638d

I think both Merkel and Macron have very neatly put the ball firmly into Johnson’s court. He’s got 30 days to come up with something that isn’t magical thinking.  It will become more difficult for the Brexiteers to blame it all on a bullying and intransigent EU (not that they won’t try). On a lighter note I see that a Dublin restaurant has introduced a new dessert - Brexit. On being asked what it was they said it was Eton Mess.  Good in a way they can still find humour in a situation where Ireland will be damaged disproportionately much more than we will by a hard Brexit. In fact David Davis pointed this out on the Today programme with almost indecent relish. He clearly sees it as a point of leverage in any last minute negotiations. We should not underestimate EU support for Ireland just as we would be wise not to ignore the rising anger in Ireland at our high handed approach to the border question and the threat to the GFA posed by Brexit.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2638d

Aren't the cavalry leaving it a bit late? I do like a cliffhanger, but my nails are suffering!

David Ainsworth ● 2638d

What Angela Merkel said... "We need a backstop. Maybe we will find a solution in 2 years time, maybe we will find a solution in thirty days time..."How the BBC (and the Brexiteer press)  reported it... "Angela Merkel anounced that a solution to the backstop could be found in thirty days..."

Richard Carter ● 2637d

More false optimism, this time quoted in the Telegraph :"[Mrs Merkel] said if we can do this in two years then we can do this in 30 days." Not quite what she was saying,  was it?

Richard Carter ● 2637d

I agree with Ms HammondI think this meeting was a great step forward as Boris Johnson has now agreed to produce a detailed plan for and explanation of what he would set up to remove the necessity of the 'backstop'.And he commited to do so in 30 days (26 left as I write I believe).It must surely contain firm and practical measures to ensure that legal trade protection at the border of the Republic and NI will be the same as those that apply to any other border between the EU and a non-member country.For let's remember that most (all ?) countries that are not part of a common trade bloc feel obliged and have the legal right  to implement such measures, including the UK and especially the US.Secondly it must maintain the openness of the border as enshrined in the Good Friday agreement, which was relatively easy to implement as the Republic and NI were both members of the same trade bloc and there were no impediments to trade or free movement of people.I think it sounds quite difficult to square these two circles, but I am sure that for the last three years Johnson and his ideological acolytes have been working on this and will soon deliver to the British public their detailed solution that will be acceptable to the EU, the Republic and the majority of those in NI that voted to stay in the EU anyway.The alternative if they don't is the Irish backstop, a protocol in the (unratified) Brexit withdrawal agreement, that would keep the United Kingdom (in general) in the European Union Customs Union and Northern Ireland (in particular) in some aspects of the European Single Market, until a solution is found in the transition period after withdrawal to prevent a hard border.But....perhaps Johnson and his men will not come up with a workable and acceptable alternative to the backstop.Perhaps we will just get more Boris waffle and grandstanding threats.Perhaps we will get a 'hard' Brexit where the UK just walks away and pays no heed to what this might mean to the whole of the island of Ireland.And has anyone thought Johnson has perhaps stepped into a Merkel bluff-calling trap because she knows he can't deliver !But at least he cannot say he was not given the chance and I am sure I am not the only one looking forward to seeing the solution.

John Hawkes ● 2635d

I can't wait, at those years banging on about 'how easy it would be to have alternative arrangements', at last they'll release their detailed plan!

Matt Palmer ● 2635d

Mr PalmerDon't hold your breath !Johnson is a known liar.He has no plan and all he is trying to do is pass the blame for not being able to solve this conundrum onto the EU.

John Hawkes ● 2634d

Even more Brexit lies. Philip Hammond is quite right to demand an apology. 

Michael Ixer ● 2634d

Perhaps somebody (maybe a Brexiteer?) can explain something to me. Apparently the Irish backstop can't be accepted because it might lock us in for ever. And yet Johnson is touting "alternative arrangements" that will solve the issue immediately. If that really is true (and no, I don't believe it either), the backstop is surely redundant as it would never need to be invoked? So why the fuss?

Richard Carter ● 2634d

I don't believe there is an alternative,  if there was it would have come to light in the past three years. Basically, the current Irish arrangement relies on both parts of Ireland being within the EU's legal framework. This is probably a good representation of a "Boris solution". Happy Bank Holiday 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 2634d

Ha ha ha!  Absolutely brilliant!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2634d

It is, Michael, where did you find it?

Richard Carter ● 2634d

Richard, it was doing the round on one of the Facebook groups, I can't find which one now.Similarly,  I expect someone's been waiting ages to use this one 🙂:Pork pie manufacturers say Boris Johnson is telling pork pies about pork pies.
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1165921369764302849

Michael Ixer ● 2634d

The group was "Best for Britain", "Editorial and Political Cartoons" has a good selection but a US bias...

Michael Ixer ● 2634d

Thank you, Michael, its a bit hard for me to check at moment: we're at Bayreuth.  Die Meistersinger on Saturday, Parsifal today. Such a pleasure to get away from $#@#£& Brexit!

Richard Carter ● 2634d

Very envious although from bits of a live stream of the Meistersinger I saw the production looked, er, interesting.  Have to watch a complete stream sometime. Although I don't envy you being in that theatre in DJ, and bow tie - drink plenty of fizz! And wear some EU cufflinks 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 2634d

What makes Boris a 'typical alpha male' Ms Hammond.You sound you have great experience of such.If Johnson is one then the attributes must be - fat, bullying in manner and tone, self-regarding and opinionated, deceitful and a liar, having his brains in his underpants, over-sexed and the producer of an unknown number of illegitimate children, shows no loyalty to wife and children, puts self before the better interests of his country.If Macron does not match up to this, is that to his disfavour ?

John Hawkes ● 2632d