Forum Topic

Container Living.

If so many people are unhappy with their living conditions, it's hot it's cold. they're about 27ft long with kitchen, bedroom, bathroom. Why not give our poor men who have fought in the forces them so their not on the street. As some of the people in the containers are moaning, I'm sure it's hotter in their own country.

Barbara Stevens ● 2639d41 Comments

'Hotter in their own country'? What a disgusting comment.https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835 Read this BBC report - 'The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".' There's no mention of where these children are born - do you really think there aren't thousands of homeless British born kids? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hostile-environment-children-street-homeless-home-office-immigration-status-project-17-a8785256.html

Lucille Grant ● 2639d

Yes Lucille, I am disgusting and disgusted I'm sure if they are British they would be more grateful. They have a bathroom, bedroom, kitchen. They don't have to share with anybody else. No drunks or junkies.

Barbara Stevens ● 2639d

'I'm sure that if they are British they would be  more grateful.' Just isten to yourself and stop digging yourself into a bigger hole Barbara.There is nothing, repeat nothing, that states any of these homeless children are anything but British. Their living conditions might suit you if you can bear them, but they sound bloody awful to me, even if it is marginally better than being on the streets.

Lucille Grant ● 2639d

Lucille read the Newspaper, it was all on the 6 o/c news.

Barbara Stevens ● 2639d

Google Shipping container Homes.

Barbara Stevens ● 2639d

The news about container homes was broadcast in Breakfast this morning.It is true that containers get very hot in the summer and incredibly cold in the winter.I often wonder why, the 5th or 6th richest economy of the world needs containers to house homeless.After all, an enormous 10-storey building will be built on the corner of Putney High Street and Putney Bridge Road, with 135 flats and less that 0.5% will be for affordable housing.  Any clues here? 

Ivonne Holliday ● 2639d

Lucille is right. The report refers to homeless children in the UK nor migrants  Not that children from anywhere should have to live in dangerous conditions.

Jane Carter ● 2639d

Instead, try reading the report from the Children's Commissioner (https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/cco-bleak-houses-report-august-2019.pdf). A few quotes give a flavour of the reality:* Some of the flats in Templefields House in Harlow measure as little as 18 square metres – a space which may be shared by a whole family, with parents and children living and sleeping in the same single room also containing their cooking facilities ... In Newbury House in East London, the flats reportedly measure even smaller at just 13 square metres – barely larger than a standard car parking space.* Crime and antisocial behaviour is a constant problem ... homeless families may find themselves living in close proximity to vulnerable adults also being housed by the council, including people recently released from prison, exposing children to possible harm: "I used to open my door to find drug dealers and men just standing there. People would cook up crack in the kitchen so I could never eat there. I had to eat out all the time."* Families have been affected by heavy dust and fumes which have caused breathing problems for some. Lorries and machinery are continually navigating the same roads where children walk and play.

Richard Carter ● 2639d

Well Richard, people live on narrow boats, old people are given a studio flat, sleeping in the same room. What about years ago, they all slept in the same room. The flats opposite the cinema for the elderly, Weimar Street, their living room is so small only room for a chair, or walk round the bed. Chelverton Court, living room kitchen and bedroom all in the same room. If there using containers and trying to help people they have laminate floors look clean. kitchen bathroom bedroom.etc. it's better than all different people living in a house using the same toilet and bathroom.

Barbara Stevens ● 2639d

I completely agree Barbara.It is important to remember these people (regardless of where they come from) are being heavily subsidised by the rest of us. Even if we accept that the State has a duty to give everyone somewhere to live, I fully expect this to be done at minimum cost to the rest of us. If the residents don't like it they can go out and buy or rent the home of their dreams with their OWN money. IMO they are fortunate to be given anything at all. As the old saying goes "beggars cannot be choosers".

Mike Harris ● 2639d

Of course asylum seekers are "heavily subsidised," because they are not allowed to work, so buying or renting the home of their dreams with their OWN money is impossible. In any case, as others have pointed out, it's not just people from abroad who are being treated like this.Really, the lack of humanity in this response and that of the original poster are complacent, shaming and disgusting.

Richard Carter ● 2638d

Back to the containers.Before I retired I went to container city opposite the O2 on the river. This firm had converted a number of containers into workshops and small units for new start up businesses. They had also fitted out a number as possible living accommodation  . Like any accommodation they were fully insulated from both the extremes of cold and the heat and were actually very nice units. The beauty being if you need more space you simply bolt  another 'room'. Externally they were treated to look like a prefab if old rather than a shipping container . The company were looking at student living and cheap hostel accommodation for visitors as their main market. Providing perfectly good accommodation far superior to bed and breakfast and other forms of temporary housing. Not something to be dismissed out of hand in the current housing crisis in London. Its really a matter of identifying suitable sites and overcoming the daft outrage as exampled in this weeks press reports.

Andy Pike ● 2638d

Barbara and Mike - wow. That's all i can say really not meant in a positive way.

Matt Palmer ● 2638d

Thanks Andy & Mike. Years ago when I was a kid a friend of my mothers lived in Sheen over a shop, but because of her husbands behavior they were moved to the the Green School next to Barnes Pond. It was like being in a hospital ward all they had was a curtain round them and she had a boy and girl. They had to live there till they had finished the Westfields flats so they could move in there. My cousin used to help at a woman refuge and for Mungo's  I would give children's clothes or mine. Yesterday a man rang our bell and handed us a card Action for children. Just £5 could buy a child a nutritious breakfast for one of our Children Centres. You can buy them a meal for £3 at Sainsbury's what are they feeding them. They would like us to contribute £2 a week and help improve a child's life Actionforchildren.org.uk I blame schools they should be able to help the children who need food and their head should be on the ball.

Barbara Stevens ● 2638d

This is by far the most depressing thread on this Forum. These are people from all backgrounds, many actually British, who are being shoehorned into highly inappropriate unconverted buildings, never mind containers, through little fault of their own. When you’re down at the bottom and in danger of falling off the bottom rung of the ladder this country used to be able to support you. Now, with a chronic housing shortage after decades of selling off council housing stock and not replacing it, it is clear we have run out of ideas. The so-called converted office block in Harlow sounds like a hell on earth. B&B accommodation, the previous last resort, made a lot of slum landlords rich, now private developers can buy any old or redundant office block and make an indecent return by offering it to desperate local councils. This hardening of hearts against the most deprived in our society is truly sad to see.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2638d

I agree  Richard - the assumption by some posters here that these homeless children are asylum seekers/refugees and not  British born makes me physically sick. These are the same posters who often remind us that we are the  6th  wealthiest economy and no, I am not naming specific names.

Lucille Grant ● 2638d

See my post above yours Matt.

Lucille Grant ● 2638d

There seem to be a number of issues here. I hope our expectation of housing standards has changed over the past few decades. In the early 50s my father had to fit a bathroom in out London terraced house and we didn't have an inside loo until we moved to a new build in Essex in 1960. The facilities in these trailer module look quite good from that perspective. I think the Children's Society point on the TV programme (not had time to read the reports) was that the overall environment - space, living density, locale, etc - weren't ideal for families; although they might be ideal for single homeless? The other problem is that we've depleted our affordable and social housing stock through selling it off and lack of investment in new builds during the past 2-3 decades. In the 1930s my widowed single parent grandmother's life was hard but she did have a reasonable council flat for her and her two daughters: I thought we we supposed to be progressing and improving people's lives? The containers are adequate and fine for temporary emergency accommodation but don't seem appropriate as a long term family home?

Michael Ixer ● 2638d

To all who didn't watch the NEWS this was about Container Living, we know  all the problems and difficulties and how children haven't a decent roof over their heads. We know how many are struggling, as a lot did years ago. This was how some they have tried to help who aren't satisfied.

Barbara Stevens ● 2638d

Michael I agree wholeheartedly with your post.The container issue is about a temporary solution to an immediate problem not a solution as such to the Housing crisis. Barbara so many of the homeless are not feckless foreigners or asylum seekers they are to use your unfortunate phraseology ' our own' . Either through family breakdown or forces personnel suffering after demob or simply folk who have hit on hard times. Indeed , God forbid,it could be any one of us that turns to the Council for emergency accommodation say after a house fire. But with objections likely from all sorts to new build or even temporary sites it is becoming increasingly difficult to find locations for social housing. More controversially I would suggest is the practice of lease back by Councils at hugely inflated rates of ex Council properties sold under rtb by councils. Of which there are hundreds on WBC estates.

Andy Pike ● 2638d

Hear hear, Michael.

Lucille Grant ● 2638d

Agreed.  Sadly some in our society have lost any sense of compassion for others and are can’t get beyond ‘what’s in it for me?’  I’m hopeful, however, that the overwhelming majority are still decent, capable of empathy and able to look beyond their own self interest.

Craig Fordham ● 2638d

I think the 'container homes' featured on C4 news are in Ealing and are an initiative by the council to get at least a few homeless out of awful and more expensive B&B or hostel accommodation. As others have suggested, these units are specially fitted out and can be configured for different sized families. The units featured are on a plot of council land that's scheduled for redevelopment in a few years time, when the units can be moved to somewhere else. Of course proper social housing would be better, and Ealing is building some of this as well, but that's a much slower process. I think the main thrust of the report was to highlight the large number of homeless children in the UK rather than to criticise one particular solution.

Peter Evans ● 2638d

"More controversially I would suggest is the practice of lease back by Councils at hugely inflated rates of ex Council properties sold under rtb by councils. Of which there are hundreds on WBC estates."Has anybody ever tried compulsory purchase orders for such properties?

David Ainsworth ● 2638d

Lucille for your information if it's hot it's hot, here as well. Perhaps a fan might be useful, instead of moaning. I kept a roof over my son's head and worked seven days a week for eight years after I divorced. I always worked even after pension age. I had friends who then didn't have a bath only an old shower, who would come and have a bath. So don't make out I've got no feelings. My son saw me working hard and would clean cars and cut hedges, also a paper round.  He was always enthusiastic , Electronics engineer, then a Black Cabbie. If children see their parents lazy or getting in trouble they will no doubt end up the same.

Barbara Stevens ● 2638d

On what grounds? Unlikey to succeed

Andy Pike ● 2638d

On the grounds of public betterment.

David Ainsworth ● 2638d

Having been involved in a number of CPOs the proof you need to be succesful far supercedesa simple statement of public betterment. Maybe if Corbyn ever got in power he may change the law but then many of his own MPs and supporters would run the risk of losing their sub let second properties.

Andy Pike ● 2638d

"Maybe if Corbyn ever got in power he may change the law but then many of his own MPs and supporters would run the risk of losing their sub let second properties."They might well be "his own MPs", but they are less likely to be his supporters.

David Ainsworth ● 2638d

Surely the real question here is why there are so many homeless children in the UK?  Overly generous child benefits perhaps, or simply over-population?

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2638d

Or perhaps not enough housing?!

Caroline Whitehead ● 2638d

"Surely the real question here is why there are so many homeless children in the UK?  Overly generous child benefits perhaps, or simply over-population?"If the child benefits are really "overly generous", then wouldn't the homeless families be able to afford a home?"over-population?" With unemployment at a 40 year low?Perhaps it is just our chronic refusal to build enough affordable homes over many years? Nah, scrub that!

David Ainsworth ● 2638d

As I said below I don't believe it's a single issue. Perhaps one I don't mention is "austerity" that resulted in the reorganisation   reduction in benefits, cuts in social services, education, the NHS, etc? 

Michael Ixer ● 2638d

If you haven't seen it you should watch George Clarke's programme on the Council House Scandal.  I'd expect it can still be found to watch again on Channel 4 and there were write-ups in the newspapers including the 'i'.  It should be compulsory viewing especially for those involved in politics.Some of these containers have been featured in the architectural press and were very neatly kitted out but I'm not convinced they are all as good.

Philippa Bond ● 2638d

Now they've become the butt of criticism because of this report, Ealing council has tried to explain that these 'modular homes' are extensively modified shipping containers intended as a short term, temporary solution to the large number of homeless in the borough. While not ideal, they are thought to be better for families than hostels or B&Bs, and they save Ealing council around £7m a year in temporary housing costs, which can go towards building proper social housing in the future.

Peter Evans ● 2637d

I've been away but did I read a week or so ago on this website that in the last month/quarter just three new build apartments were sold in SW15? I imagine it's the same in the rest of the borough. So there must be hundreds of empty units - how about compulsory purchase of some of these?

Hugh Walton ● 2637d

Interesting point but I thought homelessness expenses were a general fund cost not a housing revenue account cost so savings keep the rates down rather than provide mkbeh fid nea housing. Unless Ealing have a way round local govt funding rules.But it's still a saving of £7m

Andy Pike ● 2637d

I might have misinterpreted this published account:"...Mark Wiltshire from Ealing Council explained: When we put people in bed and breakfast we don’t get the full cost back from the government. So we are subsidising to the tune of about £7million-a-year. So it’s a much, much cheaper way to deal with this problem. And the actually living arrangements are much better for people than bed and breakfast."

Peter Evans ● 2637d

Thanks Peter a lot of people just think your being racist, but for a sudden solution is better than nothing.

Barbara Stevens ● 2637d

A lot of new buildings nowadays are built offsite in sections and then when practically finished lifted by crane into position.  It can mean safer building sites without scaffolding and without needing so many workman needed to work at high level so avoiding many H&S issues.  Plastering can be all done beforehand on the ground.  I wonder how many fewer jobs there are.This is what can happen when we don't have enough homes:https://resource.co/article/new-research-address-issue-people-sleeping-bins

Philippa Bond ● 2637d

Interesting programme on BBC Weatherwatch this morning about modern modular building and keeping homes warm in cold weather and cool in warm weather.  Apparently it takes three times as much energy to cool homes than to heat them.  Is this really true?  Also interesting about tubes and trains.

Philippa Bond ● 2635d