Forum Topic

Minister resigns in protest against Johnson

Sir Alan Duncan has quit as a foreign office minister in protest against a possible Boris Johnson victory in the Conservative leadership race.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49069880Quite an article!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2669d41 Comments

Another dreary Remaniac gone. Great stuff! 👍🏻

Sue Hammond ● 2669d

Have you read the article Sue?There will be one, or perhaps two, things you may quietly agree with.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2669d

@IvonneNo I haven't read that one because I had already read the report in the Mail. I'll read the BBC one now.

Sue Hammond ● 2669d

Hi Ivonne. Just read it. The passage below just about sums up the Remaniacs' collective dismal outlook. Him and Gauck can join miserable chops Hammond to whine from the back benches.🙄"In his resignation letter to Theresa May, Sir Alan said it was "tragic" her government had been dominated by "the dark cloud of Brexit" - which he said had stopped the UK becoming the "dominant intellectual and political force" in the world."

Sue Hammond ● 2669d

Yes, I thought that might be one you would highlight.But I also thought the following paragraphs would be difficult to deny:Sir Alan also discussed his own record at the Foreign Office in the letter, and said he remained "deeply upset that some fruitful discussions I had initiated about the possible release of Nazanin Ratcliffe were brought to such an abrupt halt". As Foreign Secretary, Mr Johnson was criticised for his handling of the case of Ms Zaghari-Ratcliffe, a British-Iranian woman serving a five-year sentence in Iran for alleged spying.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2669d

I agree that Johnson didn't help this poor lady's situation by his gaffe but at the time Boris said the information that she was in Iran to train journalists was given to him by FO personnel working on the case. Now whether you think this is true or not is a side issue, the Iranian government is solely to blame for Nazanin's ongoing incarceration.

Sue Hammond ● 2669d

I am sure Boris said the information on reasons Nazanin was in Iran was given to him by the FO personnel.  It would not surprise me if one of the first reasons given was that of a family holiday. There was a documentary on the civil service not long ago.  People from the different departments were interviewed including some of the FO of course.A lady who worked closely with Boris said he was a difficult character to brief, as he would not listen or not read the briefs.  We could argue till we are blue in our face but the truth is that none of us have the "proof" on this.What is true though is that, as Foreign Secretary, "the buck stops with him" as the American would say.And he should have known, and should continue to know, how to select bits of briefs for his negotiations and which to keep under his bonnet.  That is one of the basic negotiating rules for any negotiator.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2669d

It's true we will never know. I note you are now calling him Boris. Be careful, it upsets Richard lol.😸Just heard on LBC news that Nazanin has been moved out of hospital and back to prison.😡

Sue Hammond ● 2669d

I've not heard previously that there was a suggestion he was  wrongly briefed. Yes, the Iranians are responsible for this situation but unfortunately Johnson's comments destroyed, in the Iranian's view, her position that she was just there for a family holiday visit. Johnson strikes me that he's someone whose ego dictates he has to same something to prove how knowledgeable and/in control he is even if he has no information where a more prudent person would say nothing or be honest that they were still finding out the facts. The fact that his minders have kept his press exposure and comments to a minimum during the leadership contest rather backs up this view: I expect they've been busy rehearsing his responses to questions prior to the debates.

Michael Ixer ● 2669d

So, so pleased all those traitor remainers , and I do not use the word lightly, are going.  Where was their honesty and integrity in trying to destabilise the elected government, of which they were ostensibly an integral part?  Whatever, Boris will have no problem whatsoever in replacing them. His  maybe?, new cabinet, looks really interesting.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2669d

@MichaelI think I have probably taken more notice of Boris than you have Michael?@BarbaraI am excited to find out who will be in the new cabinet. I hope it includes Rees-Mogg, Raab, Davis, Gove, Javiid, Leadsom and Priti Patel. Who would you choose Barbara?

Sue Hammond ● 2669d

Hello Barbara,This is a treacherous remainer answering....I do not think the remainers destabilised the government per se, they did act as a very strong opposition which Labour did not manage to do.  I think the extreme right wing were not particularly helpful either and were more active in removing the elected government headed by Theresa May.What is worrying at the moment, for argument's sake only, let us suppose that Boris Johnson does win the leadership contest (I did say for argument's sake!), and some MPs leave the whip and the party altogether, are you at all concerned that the new government may become a minority government?  As you may have heard, Charlie Elphicke (MP for Dover) has had the Whip withdrawn due to being charged with three counts of sexual assault.  As a result of the Whip being withdrawn, he will sit as an Independent MP in the HoC. Therefore, the Tories' majority in the Commons, where the party has the support of the DUP, is now down to two, with the prospect of a further cut if the party loses a by-election in Brecon and Radnorshire on 1 August.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2669d

@Sue. I'd probably have to agree with you on that one - however, I do subscribe to the "know your enemy" theory 🙂 I'm not necessarily saying an ego is bad, if it's controlled; it's probably needed to drive the ambition to be a leader. I'd say that is probably one of Corbyn's problems: his personal ego was insufficient to have the ambition to be leader, he probably thought it  was never a realistic possibility until he was pushed forward and he was probably more surprised than anyone else that it happened!  (Now, Keir Starmer ...) What comes across to me is that Johnson feels the PM position is his by right because of his background, Eton, Oxford education, etc? Someone like Javid, or even Gove, I feel would have got there on their own efforts and appreciate the responsibility of the position more?

Michael Ixer ● 2669d

Parliament is getting more convoluted by the minute.

Sue Hammond ● 2669d

Tories tearing themselves apart, who'd have thought it.

Lucille Grant ● 2669d

Labour doing the same. The only united party now in Parliament is LibDem. To be joined by The Brexit Party after the next GE ...

Sue Hammond ● 2669d

The Labour Party has been tying itself up in knots since Corbyn became leader.Could Boris persuade the Brexit Party to join his rump of Conservatives should he go for a General Election? He needs them for a majority in Parliament.Meanwhile #GoLibDems.

Lucille Grant ● 2669d

Boris had ruled it out the last I heard, and so had Farage. But who knows ...

Sue Hammond ● 2669d

I understand Boris wrote an article comparing solving the Northern Ireland border problem with the Moon landings. I'm sure it has some valid points but, as I don't have a subscription, I don't think I can read it? Anyway - and I know I'm going to be told this article is biased - this response reflects my opinion (already touched on in another thread) but it does save me the time expanding on it! Essentially, from my geographical knowledge of Ireland and my amateur science  interest in the moon landing, and my experience of designing, developing and implementing IT systems, I reckon it's close to reality. If anyone thinks the number of boarder crossings or facts about the moon landing resources are wrong happy to be informed. (Remember, as well as the employees working directly for v NASA there were more working in universities and subcontractors.) I would accept that it might be easier to build the border system but I think the UK and EU agreeing the requirements might be more problematic that the relatively forward requirement to get to the moon, land, collect some rocks, leave some experiments and a flag, then come back - doing it was the difficult and complex achievement - and at that time the US hadn't introduced tariffs on rocks imported from the Moon. Anyway, I think we can't be fairly certain that if there's a hard no deal Brexit at Halloween there won't be an IT system to track cross border trade - it might only take one or two years but thats probably long enough to cause chaos in Ireland? Reality and honesty it the important thing.https://infacts.org/boris-johnsons-moon-article-is-loony/

Michael Ixer ● 2669d

Hello Michael,I agree with your comment "Anyway, I think we can't be fairly certain that if there's a hard no deal Brexit at Halloween there won't be an IT system to track cross border trade - it might only take one or two years but that's probably long enough to cause chaos in Ireland? Reality and honesty it the important thing."Particularly reality and honesty is the important thing.  Perhaps the delay in setting up an IT system to track cross border trade was one of the reasons why Hammond asked for the transition period.On a cheeky note, do you think Boris will find a solution to the problems with Iran with the same ease as comparing solving the Northern Ireland border problems with the moon landings?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2669d

Ivonne, I fear with Johnson's usual shoot from the hip, tactless style we could be at war with Iran in a couple of weeks time. Interestingly, May and Hunt seem to be getting closer to Europe and distancing htemselves from the US, wonder where that will put Johnson and his chum Trump in a week's time?

Michael Ixer ● 2669d

War? Project Fear taken to another level.

Sue Hammond ● 2669d

Wars have begun over less Sue

Lucille Grant ● 2669d

I disagree with you Sue, rather emphatically I am afraid.The situation with Iran is very fragile indeed.  Anything that interferes with oil and money will always be the first things to be the cause and consequence.If the negotiators fail, and I am afraid we have none, the outcome could be quite dire.  No project fear here in the slightest!Why do you think that piracy off the costs of Madagascar, Kenya and Somalia were fought in international waters?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2669d

@Sue and Barbara,With Boris as leader, I agree it would make sense for the Remain Tories to go over to the Lib Dems.This would make it clearer for the voters, who to vote for.Bearing in mind Leave constituencies won 406 to Remain 242 at the referendum, this equates to 62.5% Leave constituencies to 37.5% Remain constituencies if voting remained the same.This would then give the 2 Brexit supporting parties, Tories/Brexit party a sizable number of MP's if voting was similar to 2016.I think Labout would dwindle to about 10% if they were lucky with Lib Dems taking up the slack.I want to see all the Remain MP's in Brexit voting constituencies lose their jobs as they are not representing their voters.

Paul Game ● 2669d

For a fleeting moment reading the front page of the Telegraph today, I wondered if they'd finally seen through Johnson. But sadly, no, it was about the man who made so many false claims about abuse.

Richard Carter ● 2668d

And an interesting Daily Mail article on Tom Watson and the fantasist:-https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7274065/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Labours-Deputy-Tom-Watson-championed-cause-fantasist-Nick.html"Incredibly, he is now being touted in the political world as the saviour of the Labour Party, a voice of moderation prepared to take on Jeremy Corbyn and his cohort of anti-Semites.Ever since Watson shed an entire forest of timber and bought a new wardrobe — something which, I'm told, generally happens when formerly married men take up with a woman half their age — some sections of the media have been carrying laudatory profiles of him, apparently oblivious to his previous.His opportunist public criticism of Labour's endemic anti-Semitism is at odds with the fact that Leon Brittan, one of his principal targets, was one of this country's most prominent Jewish politicians.And he seems not to have been troubled by the fact that the false allegations against Brittan first surfaced in the 1980s and were discredited by none other than Left-wing investigative journalist Paul Foot, who maintained they were motivated by, er, anti-Semitism in the security services.Then there was Watson's bromance with anti-Press campaigner Max Mosley, son of Fascist leader Oswald Mosley, who gave Watson a £540,000 donation — money Watson refused to return even after the Mail exposed his benefactor's dubious, racist past."

David Ainsworth ● 2668d

Richard Littlejohn is an excellent journalist. He is a staunch Brexiteer and his anti-EU articles (aka rants) are pithy and often very funny.

Sue Hammond ● 2668d

I see from the FT there are some doubts about Johnson from some Brexiters ... and the Express seems to be running an article that Farage isn't convinced about either ... Can't see a Tory/Brexit Party truce based on this?https://www.ft.com/content/b5798e74-9f25-11e9-9c06-a4640c9feebbhttps://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1147312/nigel-farage-brexit-boris-johnson-brexit-party-rally-tory-leader

Michael Ixer ● 2668d

"Another dreary Remaniac gone. Great stuff!"There is a lot more to Alan Duncan, and dreary he is not.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/08/why-might-an-israeli-diplomat-believe-alan-duncan-needs-taking-down

David Ainsworth ● 2668d

To prevent the Tory party having the "the dark cloud of Brexit" over it, perhaps its prior leader and PM, David Cameron, should have been a bit more savvy and competent.Oh well, too late now, GoBoJo!!

Bunny Payne ● 2668d

*a touch of Lord Mandelson about him* 

Lucille Grant ● 2667d

Disliked Mandelson with an intensity.  However, HE was really clever and wrapped everyone around his little finger.  Often wished he could have been Tory leader lol  He got things done and was impervious to obstacles and public opinion. Boris also single minded but so much more likeable

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2667d

Johnson "single minded but so much more likeable."Well, Johnson is certainly single minded in pursuit of his own interest and only likeable if you like his fake persona, but his competence is an entirely different matter. As Foreign Secretary, his only proper political job, he was a total disaster and an embarrassment. His speech yesterday was typical, especially this:  “Today, at this pivotal moment in our history, we again have to reconcile two noble sets of instincts – between the deep desire for friendship and free trade and mutual support and security and defence between Britain and our European partners; and the simultaneous desire, equally heartfelt, for democratic self-government in this country.”The suggestion that we don't have democratic self-government in this country now is utter nonsense, typical of the man. He must know that - he's not stupid - but he says it all the same. Theres much more of this to come !

Richard Carter ● 2667d

This, from Der Spiegel, is a typical example of how Johnson is seen from across the channel:

Richard Carter ● 2667d

The Germans would know a Mad leader. Pot and kettle methinks

Andy Pike ● 2667d

You guys really hate it when you dont get your own way. Brexit vote,Boris vote ......Scouring publications worldwide to support your arguments and foot stamping. Well you can scream and scream as much a you like in the short term it ain't gonna change nothing. Maybe medium term it will with over 300 of your like as MPs but as they say that's democracy!! really.?

Andy Pike ● 2667d

At least the German's have learnt from recent history.  Pot and kettle?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2667d

Yes, this endless harping back (75 years!!) to the second world war is a common trope for Brexiteers. But hey, let's invoke the Blitz, when we (supposedly) stood alone and the Dunkirk spirit. That oughter show 'em!

Richard Carter ● 2667d

I was talking about the current one. You know let them come and we will house them. Richatd you do always jump to the same conclusions. Shows a narrowness of mind that you accuse those who voted brexit of having.Why do YOU keep harping back 75 years ?

Andy Pike ● 2667d

Andy, much like Blair, Merkel opened the doors as the population of Germany, like most western democracies, is now top heavy and has an ageing population that it can’t afford.  This generation holds political sway in both the UK and Germany, so like turkeys and Christmas would never vote to increase their taxes or cut their services - see the recent furore over scrapping free TV licences.  The only option is to increase the tax take and that means increasing the working population.  With birth rates on the decline (both parents working, couples not being able to afford children etc) the only option was to invite immigration.  The irony is that those older people who seem most aggrieved by immigration are the ones who most benefit from it. 

Craig Fordham ● 2667d