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Andy Pike · 07/09/2019 08:06:00

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A handful of union men set policy for Jezza

Those worried that 160000 Tory members are electing the next pm must be absolutely horrified that a handful of union leaders gave agreed and instructed Jezza on his policy re Brexit. I suppose it has at least ket him off the fence.

Andy Pike ● 2682d35 Comments

I was a bit surprised when I heard this. It won’t go down well with Union members in the North and Midlands, ie the Labour heartlands.

Martine Guy ● 2682d

Andy's original title for this thread needed correcting: the truth is that the unions are slowly, hesitantly and reluctantly inching their way to supporting the rest of the party. I hope that clears it up.

Richard Carter ● 2682d

Who are the rest of the Party? London Labour or The Midlands and The North?

Martine Guy ● 2682d

And the union leaders are all elected by their members who in turn are mostly Labour supporters. No equivalence with unelected unaccountable Tory party members choosing our next PM. In the case of the Labour Party, technically any change of policy will be decided this morning by the shadow cabinet and in reality most major policy decisions are made at their annual conference. More democratic? Probably. Cumbersome and difficult to adapt quickly in changing circumstances? Definitely.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2682d

Corbyn is being pulled from side to side by different wings of the party.As I pointed out on the other thread this video is doing the rounds on social media of Corbyn talking about the Irish referendum a while back. Please watch as it is so funny!If he changes his tune, and supports a 2nd referendum he will have no credibility left.It will be goodnight Jeremy! People oh this forum say Boris u-turns hahahahahahahahahahhttps://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/parties/labour/jeremy-corbyn/video-emerges-of-jeremy-corbyn-attacking-eu/

Paul Game ● 2682d

To clarify, after a five-hour meeting with Keir Starmer, more than 100 delegates from trade unions and local parties drafted a two-page motion, which, as Jonathan had pointed out, the executive will discuss today. It's taken an extremely long and unsatisfactory time but at least they've tried to deal with the huge split in the party. I don't see that happening with the Conservatives...

Richard Carter ● 2682d

Corbyn is only a puppet of the Unions and Mcdonell who will oust him within weeks if ,god forbid,they ever get into governnent.

Andy Pike ● 2682d

I don't see why. However people voted in the referendum, the negative impact of Brexit on jobs is becoming clearer by the day, with the North and Midlands likely to be hardest hit. The unions are doing what is best for their members. No-one voted to be poorer.

Clare Noeken ● 2682d

This looks like realism setting in. Many union leaders will have spent time on the shop floor. They understand from first hand experience what the effect of Brexit, particularly a no deal Brexit, will have on various aspects of the manufacturing industry processes such as just-in-time stock control. It's their union members who will suffer financially in the event of problems, even if only temporary, which are obviously going to occur if a no deal Brexit happens as there will be a gap until new trade deals are in place. The elite of Johnson, Rees Mogg et al with their classics and history degrees (where are all the STEM degrees?) and inherited wealth invested abroad will be fine. I notice even the NFU is getting jittery about the withdrawal of EU environmental grants ...

Michael Ixer ● 2682d

Jaguar Rover have just committed to building the new XJ in Castle Bromwich, Birmingham, saving thousands of existing jobs and creating new ones.

Martine Guy ● 2682d

Which is good, Martine. Although I think for Tata Motors, the owners of Jaguar, would have other considerations moving the manufacturing of a fairly specialist, low volume manufacturing facility to another location than, say, Honda - who are closing their Swindon plant - have moving high volume, mass market product, manufacturing facilities between their global locations?

Michael Ixer ● 2682d

I guess that might make up for the 4500 Jaguar job losses announced in January this year, the 1000 jobs in Solihull in April 2018 and then even more when production of the Discovery is moved to Slovakia…https://www.theengineer.co.uk/jlr-job-cuts4500-uk-jobs/https://www.theengineer.co.uk/jaguar-land-rover-1000-jobs/https://www.theengineer.co.uk/discovery-production-slovakia/

Clare Noeken ● 2682d

I don’t understand what you are saying? Are you saying they are moving the Castle Bromwich plant to Swindon?

Martine Guy ● 2682d

Virtually the only pro Brexit economist, Patrick Minford, believes the car industry will have to go the same way as the coal and steel industries as part of the price of Brexit. That’s an awful lot of skilled manufacturing jobs to sacrifice. He is less clear on the economic upsides that will compensate. Just google his name and car industry.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2682d

Sorry, dashed off rather quickly. I'm saying that because the Tata Motor Jaguar business is a luxury, relatively low volume specialist manufacturing operation they would probably incur other costs, for example, training if they relocate it so there's probably a good financial case to stay put. On the other hand, Honda and similar organisations, who have multiple manufacturing locations worldwide, have probably designed their high volume manufacturing plants so it's relatively easy to shift the location of production as local economic conditions vary.

Michael Ixer ● 2682d

As I understand it, there are hard times ahead for all the car industry, jobs would have been cut with or without Brexit. Jaguar Landrover’s commitment is in electric vehicles, which can only be a good thing. Hopefully it will guarantee Castle Bromwich’s future.

Martine Guy ● 2682d

That’s not true. Jobs in the car industry may have decreased over time, but jobs in the UK car industry are most definitely being cut because of Brexit. This is a good article showing how carmakers and suppliers in Britain and the EU27 are intertwined.‘The UK automotive industry is right at the centre of concerns about what damage Brexit might inflict on the British economy – because the expansion of car plants since the financial crisis is based on remarkable levels of cooperation with suppliers on the continent… But on average, just 41% of the parts used in a car assembled in the UK are actually produced in the country… There are hundreds and thousands of movements per car. Anything that changes or puts barriers to that free flow of parts will have an effect. It is fundamental to the efficiency in this country… Existing trade deals between the EU and other countries include rules that products must have a certain proportion of parts built in their home market to avoid tariffs. For example, in the EU’s agreement with South Korea 55% of the parts in a car must be sourced from Europe to qualify for free trade.’Then there’s the design approvals, patents, safety certifications etc, that would not be valid in the EU if they had been granted within the UK. It’s all far, far more complicated than Nigel Farage led us to believe.https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

Clare Noeken ● 2682d

As far as I understand it, the batteries for the new electric cars will be made in Birmingham and the motors will be made in Wolverhampton. Sounds good to me.

Martine Guy ● 2682d

Yes, of course it's good news that so much will be made here. I wonder who would buy them though, if we are no longer part of the biggest trade bloc on the planet...would be best all round if we simply remain in the EU.

Clare Noeken ● 2682d

Nah, not really Clare. Dream on. Jaguar Land Rover is still a great marque worldwide.

Martine Guy ● 2682d

“I wonder who would buy them though, if we are no longer part of the biggest trade bloc on the planet...would be best all round if we simply remain in the EU.”North America is now a larger market than Europe for JLR, despite shock horror not having to follow rulings from the us Supreme Court or being in a customs union.See here - looks like eu exports account for around 20% of demand...https://www.statista.com/statistics/386952/jaguar-land-rover-global-regional-sales/Are you suggesting they will no longer sell cars in North America (and elsewhere globally) due to brexit?

Mike Warman ● 2682d

The UK doesn't have a trade agreement with North America. The EU does, which of course we are part of at the moment. If the UK is not in the EU, parts, certificates, designs etc that are produced here won't be valid in the EU. That's what being out of the EU single market would mean. The UK would then need to negotiate it's own different markets, hence all this talk of trade deals, which takes decades and are never 'free'.The car industry in the UK has been so successful because of our membership of the EU, not in spite of it.

Clare Noeken ● 2682d

And Trump will put high duties on cars and parts not manufactured in the USA.

Lucille Grant ● 2682d

Clare, the car industry has to change just like other businesses. I am old enough to remember 1960s Birmingham when the British car industry was booming. I don’t think we were in the EU then.

Martine Guy ● 2682d

Yes Martine, but from the information I have, the UK owned its car industry in the 1960s, industrial disputes and all.Fast forward to today, globalization in full swing, there may be British marques but no longer owned by the UK.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2682d

Exactly Ivonne. Times change. I did note earlier in the week that none of the Remainers on here reported on the Jaguar Rover deal. Doesn’t fit in with Project Fear. Jaguar Rover may no longer be British but people worldwide know it and like it.

Martine Guy ● 2682d

The old British car industry became uncompetitive thanks to lack of investment and dreadful industrial relations. The revival started when the Japanese chose the UK as its base for entering theEuropean market. Honda was the first and Nissan and Toyota followed. Until recently it was a UK industrial success story despite both Ford and GM/Vauxhall starting to shift their operations elsewhere. Brexit in any form, unless there is a seamless transition from single market to free trade deal, will heavily impact the car industry - and other key industries such as pharma, aerospace and other just in time manufacturers. No ifs no buts it will be very harmful indeed. There is no evidence to the contrary.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2682d

What trade agreement does the EU have with the US exactly Clare?There is no comprehensive agreement like CETA and the equivalent with the US did not progress

Mike Warman ● 2682d

Mike, you're right, I was wrong about that. The EU doesn't have a trade deal with the US, hence all the talk recently about what the US would 'want' from the UK in the event we wanted to negotiate with them, as we wouldn't have the same expertise or power in those talks as we would as part of the EU.

Clare Noeken ● 2682d

But Trump doesn't like the EU Clare so it's very unlikely to get a good trade deal going down that route. However Trump does have a strong affinity with Britain and his recent State visit has made it even stronger. I believe the U.K. will get a brilliant trade deal with the US, as long as we have the right PM (Boris) and a strong Brexit team to help him negotiate it.

Sue Hammond ● 2682d

'I believe the U.K. will get a brilliant trade deal with the US' Any deal will be to the benefit of the USA (understandably) and not the UK. There is no special relationship - Trump will do whatever he can to Make America Great Again and if it means kicking the UK down, he will.

Lucille Grant ● 2682d

Sorry guys - the site is playing up again!

Lucille Grant ● 2682d

America First

Philippa Bond ● 2682d