Forum Topic

The Guardian newspaper

The Guardian in crisis: 'How Britain’s liberal bugle is destroying itself'.I have just been reading that the circulation of this newspaper has more than halved over the last decade to a mere 141,160 up to this current year.After a fairly recent re-branding that clearly didn't worked, how long can the Guardian carry on losing so much money?There are many articles online about this.The Link I've pasted from a while back was when the circulation was 164,163 so you can see it has fallen even further the last number of months.https://www.rt.com/op-ed/342075-guardian-crisis-britain-media/

Paul Game ● 2717d25 Comments

Perhaps Richard could start a crowdfunding petition to try and save it?🤔

Sue Hammond ● 2717d

Hate to break it to your both but The Guardian broke even this year, something the Daily Mail hasn't achieved in a long time...https://www.theguardian.com/global/2019/may/01/the-guardian-break-even-katharine-viner

Matt Palmer ● 2717d

"Liberal bugle"?In the quoted article:-"Today, the once pro-worker Guardian is hostile to Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders, two politicians it once would have enthusiastically supported. With its left-wing dogma abandoned, the newspaper has switched to the right on geopolitics and economics."Halved circulation over the last decade is rather common, see:-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation#2010_to_present

David Ainsworth ● 2717d

Aren’t online revenues up, whilst actual newspaper sales decline?I see the Guardian never made the rumoured move back to Manchester.  Wonder why!

Martine Guy ● 2717d

Another own goal! Perhaps you could do better than posting material that is (a) more than three years old and (b) is from a more reliable source than Putin's mouthpiece Russia Today. Try this, for example, which was posted this year if you want to be taken seriously:  https://www.niemanlab.org/2019/05/want-to-see-what-one-digital-future-for-newspapers-looks-like-look-at-the-guardian-which-isnt-losing-money-anymore/

Richard Carter ● 2717d

Another own goal! Perhaps you could do better than posting material that is (a) more than three years old and (b) is from a more reliable source than Putin's mouthpiece Russia Today. Try this, for example, which was posted this year if you want to be taken seriously:  https://www.niemanlab.org/2019/05/want-to-see-what-one-digital-future-for-newspapers-looks-like-look-at-the-guardian-which-isnt-losing-money-anymore/

Richard Carter ● 2717d

That's great new David, I didn't realise the Guardian had dropped Corbyn.I had high hopes for the Labour party in 97, a new kind of politics we were told by Blair. Then unfortunately he brought the spin doctor Campbell in, and the freshness about the party soon evaporated.Bliar taking over the centre ground worked for a few years, the public bought into it, but since they picked the wrong Miliband as leader in 2010 it has all gone pear shaped. Far too loony left now for me under Corbyn, and all this antisemitism that seems rife in the party these last few years. Awful shame.How about you David, what are your thoughts about the current state of the party?

Paul Game ● 2717d

"I didn't realise the Guardian had dropped Corbyn."So you haven't been looking at it recently. On Corbyn, the Guardian is much like your beloved fundament of all knowledge - Twitter."all this antisemitism that seems rife in the party these last few years." "Seems".

David Ainsworth ● 2717d

Correct David, I don't read the Guardian or generally any articles referring to Corbyn. Not my cup of tea.Thats why I was interested in your views of the state of the current Labour party?

Paul Game ● 2717d

so, ignoring my point Paul about the guardian breaking even?Seems to be a recurring issue with you, ignore the facts that dont fit your narrative

Matt Palmer ● 2717d

Sorry Matt, If that is the case then good for them, but if the steady decline of readership continues like it has the previous decade then the Guardian will no doubt go to the wall.I think you will find I answer most of the questions put to me, unlike many on this forum.

Paul Game ● 2717d

See my answer above

Paul Game ● 2717d

Matt, what are your views about the current state of the Labour party?I don't think David will answer, he just prefers C&P too, much like Richard.

Paul Game ● 2717d

No idea why this appeared twice, not my intention anyway.

Richard Carter ● 2717d

Fairly disastrous!I sort of quite liked Corbyn at the start, I dont have a huge issue with renationalising the railways etc, other european countries seem to generally run better services for cheaper so it's clearly possible.In terms of anti-antisemitism, they are appear to be a disaster but the tories have exactly the same issues with anti-islamaphobia. Not that any of that makes it right of course.Probably my biggest issue with Corbyn is that he promised that policies would be chosen by the membership and they voted for a 2nd referendum, he's chosen not to go that route so gone against his own membership.For a man who has held very strong views on a number of subjects over the years he's turned out very woolly when it comes to Brexit, which whether you are with it or not is a massively important to seemingly try to fudge. I've always been more lib dem or green party so doesn't particularly both me.

Matt Palmer ● 2717d

Yes agree Matt, the railways should never have been privatised in the first place, along with all the essential vital public utilities. The poor are getting screwed with ever increasing price rises. Had the utilities still been in the public sector the rises could have been cushioned from the poor by the taxpayer. Don't know about you, but i'm also furious about the Police cuts this last decade. Teresa May has got a lot to answer for both as Home Secretary, and PM.Visible officers on the street go a long way to reducing crime.How she fails to link crime to less visible officers on the street is beyond me.There was a documentary recently and the gang members admitted the kids carry knives about because there are far less Police on the streets now, and they don't get stopped and searched anymore.Surely we must learn from this.

Paul Game ● 2717d

"Matt, what are your views about the current state of the Labour party?I don't think David will answer, he just prefers C&P too, much like Richard."I do have other things to be doing."C&P"? P? Well, I believe that I was shocked when Corbyn won the leadership. It did not seem a good idea at all. I do try to defend him against being traduced though.I think that the Labour Party is hopelessly split internally, very confusing over Brexit, and under external attack, to which it fails to respond in a strong enough manner. In some ways, not unlike the Tories, and indeed the country.

David Ainsworth ● 2717d

Yes David, I agree the splits are everywhere to be seen.I think The Lib Dems and the Brexit Party will continue to flourish as they are the only 2 of the 4 parties very clear on their views on Brexit.Was listening to someone recently and they mentioned pre Brexit, people defined themselves left, right, Labour, Tory, whatever, but now politics has changed forever as people define themselves Remainer or Brexiteer. I think it's a very good point.

Paul Game ● 2717d

Nice to have some input from you Dickie.Are you disputing the figures as they are also on Wikipedia?

Paul Game ● 2717d

Enough with the stupid names, time to grow up. The figures you quote are at least three years old and the paper is no longer losing money.  Is that the best you can do, to quote outdated figures?

Richard Carter ● 2717d

I completely agree with you Paul.

Matt Palmer ● 2717d

Wow Richard you are trolling my comments non-stop today.Come on Jane get him back on his leash please, my stalker is on the rampage! #scary

Paul Game ● 2717d

Nice to see at least a small outbreak of agreement!I naturally also agree that Labour looked a lot better to me under Blair, although not without its problems,  Corbyn has not been good for it, nor imho would he be anything other than a disaster as a PM, largely due to having John McDonnell at his side who I think is far more ruthless.All politics is split throughout the west in general.  I do think interesting to debate this in a civilised fashion from both sides.  Having scanned a few minutes of Paul’s YouTube link I agree in part with what liddle said in those elements, or that people in the “bubble” at the bbc are unaware of any bias and unable to relate to people having different opinions as they come across them so Infrequently.For those of an astrological perspective the splits in politics and how they are throwing up the gulf between the governed and governing are hardly unexpected as we move towards the Saturn Pluto conjunction in Pluto - uncanny!  Probably not widely given credence here though!I think these large scale shifts and movements have a course to run, and it’s best to keep an open mind as it’s often hard to understand the outcome whilst still involved in the skirmish, whether it arises for a while then fades with people having decided it is better as is after all, or a new normal sweeps in, and the old certainties are replaced with new ways of looking at things.We live in an endless flow of causality and whilst arguing about it is quite engaging only awareness and perspective really help give insight and peaceStill happy to see a rare moment of agreement in all this!

Mike Warman ● 2717d

Hello Paul,I think the circulation of all newspapers has more than halved over the last decade, mainly because of internet and being able to access newspapers online and no need to read them "on paper".Many of the competition put paywalls on, so it is difficult to know how many subscribers there are (statistics can be easily manipulated, by the way).I remember those days on the crowded tube when people reading broadsheets used to push their papers into your face.  Now they read them on their phones or tablets, if at all.The Guardian does not have a paywall but it asks for contributions.As always raising funds is incredibly difficult.  In common with the other newspapers, they have all suffered with circulation.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2717d

Hi Mike, good to hear from you.Funnily enough I was hoping yourself and Michael would be on the forum today or tomorrow as I wanted to see if either of you might get a chance to watch the 2 interviews with Rob Liddle and Robin Aitken about the BBC. (I note you have watched some of the Rob Liddle one and commented already so thankyou)Im very interested in both your opinions as you are both very honest, articulate and thoroughly decent when discussing a subject matter, even if it is maybe not in line with your own views.I know others will just be dismissive of the interviews or choose not to watch them, but I thought you and Michael would give me interesting and honest feedback as the BBC's impartiality has been talked about quite a lot in recent months and years on social media.I thought the Robin Aitken interview was really interesting, especially when he said the BBC pick and choose what they put on their news agenda, effectively saying it depended whether it fitted with their narrative/agenda.I pretty much knew this stuff went on as I've previously heard many stories of similar bias myself. Also yes, some peace did break out today lol. It was good to hear Matt and Davids current view on the Labour party, as I, like yourself originally supported the early Blair years. Here is the link to the Robin Aitken video if you missed it on the other thread and you manage to watch any of it at a later date. TTFN.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aucDmK5E4bU

Paul Game ● 2717d