Forum Topic

Petition to Revoke Article 50 breaks Parliamentary site

You may have read that a petition on the UK Government and Parliament site to revoke Article 50 went viral today, setting a record for the highest number of signatories ever to get behind a petition of this kind and crashing the site.I voted Remain but, even if I hadn't, I wouldn't be buying into this mess that's not fit for purpose for either side of the debate - as we see being played out by our MPs.So far (as at 11 p.m. 21st March) over 4,500 of Putney's constituents have signed it - that's nearly 5% of all ... in one day.I'm sure I'll hear from the naysayers but, if you'd like to add your voice, here's the link: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584.As I mentioned, the site keeps crashing - so persevere.

Roy Robart ● 2792d54 Comments

Currently the total stands at over 2.1 million . Very impressive , and I think there'll be a big turnout for the March on Saturday.

Richard Carter ● 2792d

I am truly sorry to be very cynical and awful.I am sure the Government will respond that it has not intention of revoking Article 50... regardless....  :-( :-( :-(

Ivonne Holliday ● 2792d

It's not cynical Ivonne. These petitions are always nonsense.It would only be interesting if the number of votes was:1. Unique count per person registered as a British citizen2. In the region of 17 or 18 million in number

John Gorst ● 2791d

At over 100,000 signatures it has to be debated in Parliament and one MP has already requested that of the Speaker. No reason for it not to come before the House while May is putting her Deal back again for the third time!

Lucille Grant ● 2791d

2,600,000 and counting.  The saintly Nigel (you know the one I mean) was on the Today prog to suggest most of the signatures were Russians. He offered no evidence of course. His Brexit march is rather smaller, maybe 200 folk walking from Sunderland to London, but in reality - his reality that is - 20,000,000 are with them in spirit. So a clear win for Brexit. The petitions website seems to be OK for now.  2,687,402 at 9.15am.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2791d

All this petition proves is the inability of 2.6m people to calculate numbers correctly and understand democracy.  Those who voted to leave the EU do not need to march, as they won the vote.  Apparently some of the signatures have been traced to North Korea and Afghanistan.  A map of the UK shows that the majority of votes are from London, Edinburgh and Oxford. Never mind, Annie Lennox and Hugh Grant have not only signed but tweeted about it.  Are they hoping for a "meaningful discussion" on this futile exercise?

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2791d

Funny (but not surprising) how, in the Gospel according to St Farage , most of the petition signatures are Russian, whilst the suggestion that Russian bots intervened in the referendum is false.

Richard Carter ● 2791d

The point is that this subject already has been debated.  Over and over and over again for the last 2.5 years.  17.4m people voting in an official referendum verses 2m voting on a dodgy opinion poll.What is left to debate?  Sure, they may have to legally discuss it in parliament - I expect the conversation to go:"Prime Minister, will you revoke article 50 because of this petition?"TM:  "No."Wake me up when the petition reaches 18m.

John Gorst ● 2791d

Yes, it has been debated over and over and over again.  Why?  Because what the Leave campaign talked about, and what people voted on, was a concept, not a plan.  There never was a plan, and there still isn't a plan.We're all fed up with Brexit.  But if it goes ahead in any form, the negotiations will carry on for years and years.  That will leave parliament with not enough time to focus on welfare, education, housing, policing etc.  The things that people really care about, which are nothing to do with the EU.Make the madness go away.  Stop Brexit.

Clare Noeken ● 2791d

This 'futile exercise' needs to be looked at in the context of the uptake on social media - which is huge - not normal vote numbers.As for external interference, here we are decades later still trying to pin it on 'red under the bed' bogeyman - same as the Americans. We'll see what Mueller comes up with. The Russian comments are particularly interesting and, I imagine, unproved - surely it would be more to their liking if the EU was broken apart?

Roy Robart ● 2791d

Over 3 million people have signed now and over 12% in Justine Greening's constituency. That's massive in terms of social media uptake.

Roy Robart ● 2791d

Chantal, it really is a bit rich for a Brexit supporter to accuse Remainers of not understanding democracy.Apart from the proven dodgy Brexit referendum campaign and the range of lies told in its support by that group of self-serving clowns, how is it democratic to impose the choice of 17.4 million people - about 25% - on the UK's 65 million population, every one of whom will in some way feel the negative impact?

Tim Watson ● 2791d

3,504,095 at 17.45.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2791d

What makes me laugh about the 'suck it up' attitude is that had the result been the exact reverse and we'd then demanded a 'hard' remain, full membership of the Euro, schengen etc the leavers would have gone absolutely mental.

Matt Palmer ● 2791d

Uhm I wonder how many of these votes have been generated by bots? Think back to 2016 and the online petition for a 2nd referendum which attracted over 3.6 million, but was proven to have been hijacked. Votes were traced to North Korea, the South Sandwich Islands and the Antartica. 1000s were even from the Vatican City, where there are only about 800 residents, and one member on the 4chan message board admitted he'd voted 33,000 times! Apparently he left a script running whilst he went off to have a shower lol.😸

Sue Hammond ● 2791d

With adequate security, this petition site might be the way to run a quick and cheaper referendum.We might need to get some help from China on how to block the web for a day.

David Ainsworth ● 2791d

There's a good article on the BBC about it, The BBC spoke to three cyber-security experts about how likely it is that a number of the 3m signatures gathered so far are not genuine.They all agreed that the petition's email validation process would be a deterrent.Each signatory has to supply a unique email address to which a verification link is sent before their signature can be accepted. UK-based signatories must also share a valid postcode.While email addresses are easy enough to set up, doing that in real time at high volume is less straightforward.Additionally, while it is possible to buy lists of email addresses stolen in various data breaches on the black market, the owner of the list would still need to access those email accounts and retrieve the validation email before being able to sign in the name of somebody else.

Matt Palmer ● 2791d

I bow to your vastly superior knowledge Matt. xx🙇🏻‍♀️

Sue Hammond ● 2791d

I was in a FB discussion about the email issue, and one way would be to use one's own email server with a domain looking like an email service ("hottymail.co.UK"?) and use names from a list but would one bother in the knowledge that the site's software looking for suspect entries might spot the spoof mail service? Still, perhaps if you're a script kiddie looking to impress one's friends? There is some surprise that there's no "captcha" feature to try and stop scripts ...

Michael Ixer ● 2791d

Matt, Yes, it was ever thus!  And meanwhile, what we see in the H of C is a large proportion of MPs' voting choices reflecting the choice of a large proportion of their constituents and so representing them all, as they should.  MPs either dumping May's deluded plans entirely or actually supporting the notion of remaining simply is Parliament representing the real "will of the people".Parliamentary democracy can work!

Tim Watson ● 2790d

Those keen on a no deal exit should read the lead article in today’s Grauniad. This is how it starts: “Exclusive: paper says ‘critical phase’ could last months as fears rise over disruption to transport and food. The extent and range of the impact of a no-deal Brexit is revealed in a confidential Cabinet Office document that warns of a “critical three-month phase” after leaving the EU during which the whole planning operation could be overwhelmed.The classified document, seen by the Guardian, sets out the command and control structures in Whitehall for coping with a no-deal departure and says government departments will have to firefight most problems for themselves – or risk a collapse of “Operation Yellowhammer”.“The … structure will quickly fall if too many decisions are unnecessarily escalated to the top levels that could have reasonably been dealt with internally …” the document says. It also concedes there are “likely to be unforeseen issues and impacts” of a no-deal Brexit that Operation Yellowhammer has been unable to predict.The Cabinet Office has taken the lead in preparations for no deal and is desperately war-gaming scenarios in the event the UK leaves without a coherent plan.”Here is the link:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/22/secret-cabinet-office-document-reveals-chaotic-planning-for-no-deal-brexit

Jonathan Callaway ● 2790d

Also on the daily mail for those who can't stomach going to the guardianhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6841207/Three-months-No-Deal-chaos-predicted-Operation-Yellowhammer-revealed.html

Matt Palmer ● 2790d

Another Mail reader! So glad you're not a Snowflake Matt.😉

Sue Hammond ● 2790d

Well if nothing else, this all demonstrates how soft and uneducated our politicians and ourselves are.  We (I say the "we" loosely) are so uninterested in how our country is run and who runs it.  Our education system does not teach much about politics or democracy or the origins of it.  I wish I had learned more at school about the history of democracy and how fragile it can be.  I find recent events quite scarey, decisions on how to run a country by an online petition??  Really???  Give me a break.

Bunny Payne ● 2790d

I can't think of one single example of the government making any decisions based on the results of an online petition?Feel free to educate me though

Matt Palmer ● 2790d

Sadly there’s very little evidence governments take any notice of large demonstrations either. The 1,000,000 who marched against the Iraq War were ignored and it’s all too likely today’s march will be treated the same way.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2790d

Regrettably, I agree with you Jonathan.  The petition has reached 4,547,908 signatures...It would not surprise me if the answer to both is: people have voted and we must respect the vote.While I agree with this too, the impasse and the mess we are in at the moment is so huge and unbelievable, that there will be trouble whatever the government does (or does not do).I am also speechless at the news that the lady who started the petition has received death threats.....  Democracy, did anyone say somewhere?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2790d

I'm sure the petition was started in good faith, but in my opinion these petitions are useless and a waste of time and just a fop to the upset proletariat.Present company excepted, we all know how many trolls there out there, why should anyone give any time to these online ridiculous things.  Get involved, join your local political party, talk to people, find out what government is really doing.I'm not being holier than thou, I'm just as bad, but I'm sick to death of hearing people moaning without ever really getting engaged in the political process, and that's not marching or signing petitions!

Bunny Payne ● 2790d

You're entitled to your opinion Bunny but for many people who feel disenfranchised petitions and marches are all they have to voice their frustration. If you join a political party you have to toe the line and if you disagree can be hounded out. The game of politics has changed immensely in our lifetime.

Lucille Grant ● 2790d

Protest is a very legitimate democratic right.Signing petitions is another way of protest.Whether they are taken seriously by governments is a different matter.People are very engaged in the current political process and many find that their views are being sidelined by the respective parties they support.  At least, from the main two parties.Let us not forget the impasse in Parliament at the moment and Theresa May's deal is disliked enormously by the Leave and Remain sides alike.The way things are at the moment, what pragmatic solution would you suggest to allow everyone to calm down and move forwards?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2790d

I agree Lucille.Also, it will be interesting to see the size of the Brexit march supposedly arriving in London on 29 March.It will be interesting to see....

Ivonne Holliday ● 2790d

And the petition stands now at 4,604,071.  That is 56,163 signatures were added in the last hour.And, by the way, the BBC did give a detailed explanation as to how they avoid "illegal" signatures.Let us see how many they need to fizzle out.  So far, I seem to recall that a very small number has been deleted...

Ivonne Holliday ● 2790d

So I suppose, in a way, we are looking at a revolution.

Bunny Payne ● 2790d

Another 13 million needed

Andy Pike ● 2790d

Why?

Jonathan Callaway ● 2790d

No Andy, that is a flippant remark!Never in a million years will a petition reach the same numbers as a referendum and an election.  For one, I can guarantee you that some people do have access to computers and/or a not proficient in their use, but not all are prepared to put their names on a petition.If you consider that 4,654,220 (as it stands now) signatures are irrelevant, it is your prerogative.  But, taking into consideration the mess the government is at the moment, the massive protest plus the petition are no small tokens.....

Ivonne Holliday ● 2790d

Looks like the Bots are being filtered out effectively only a small proportion of entries are from outside of the UK, and that doesn't invalidate them anyway:https://tompride.wordpress.com/2019/03/22/more-brexiter-lies-no-the-revoke-art-50-petition-is-not-being-faked-by-russian-bots-or-fraudsters/

Michael Ixer ● 2787d

Not only that but there are clear checks on UK signatories: one of us tried to sign again (inadvertently, because they'd forgotten they'd already signed it) - and this was (rightly) refused. So much for the nay-sayers.

Richard Carter ● 2787d

As at 17:40 today, 5,755,031 signatures - with 20% of Putney constituents. The link in my original post now shows the Government's response, which is that they won't revoke Art50, yet people are still signing.The count obviously won't hit over 16/17M but that wouldn't change their stance anyway as they're determined to honour the original pledge.They say they don't want to lose the public's trust but I'm more concerned that, however this pans out, we're losing more credibility with the EU every passing day - which would weaken our future negotiating power even if we stayed.

Roy Robart ● 2787d

I have just read this on BBC Live:17:36Article 50 petition to be debated 1 AprilThe petition calling for Article 50 to be revoked - and which has so far attracted 5.8 million signatures - will be debated on 1 April. At the same time, MPs will also debate two other petitions - one calling for a second referendum on EU membership, another calling for the UK to leave the EU regardless of whether a deal has been approved.The debate will start at 4.30pm and will be opened by Catherine McKinnell MP, a member of the Petitions Committee.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2787d

The government has already told petitioners that it will ignore all 5,874,792 of us (and the total is still rising).  However one of the indicative votes runs as follows:Revocation to avoid no deal (L) proposed by Joanna Cherry (SNP)If the Withdrawal (Agreement) Bill has not been passed before exit day, the government will ask MPs to approve no deal. If this does not pass, the government will revoke Article 50.Even now nobody in the country has any idea about our future relationship with the EU, our closest neighbours and (collectively) our largest trading partners.  What a nightmare!

Jonathan Callaway ● 2786d

Hello Jonathan,But Parliament is going to debate the petition, on Monday!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2786d

Indeed!  Maybe some of the fog will have cleared by then.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2786d

Isn't Monday All Fools' Day!I wouldn't expect Theresa May to take any notice.  She's barged ahead with Heathrow expansion despite all the evidence against it - noise, pollution, environmental damage, climate change. Why should this be any different?

Elizabeth Balsom ● 2786d

Yes, it is April Fool's Day, but it is in black and white on an email from Parliament UK!!I do not think Theresa May will be involved as this issue has been taken over by Parliament.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2786d

And at last she's on her way out.Trouble is, who might replace her

Elizabeth Balsom ● 2786d

Amber Rudd ? Not with the (final) electorate the backwoodsmen and backwoodswomen of the Tory membership.Oddschecker says Michael Gove, with Johnson second , Jeremy Hunt third. https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-conservative-leader

Richard Carter ● 2786d

As the saying goes, do not count your chickens just yet.  She will go if they vote (and win the vote) for her deal....  Let us see what happens.Never, in my life, would I have ever believed that the ruling party had so many hyenas with them.... 

Ivonne Holliday ● 2786d

Some of the odds quoted are very strange: Chris Grayling as low as 250/1 seems particularly ridiculous . But they do seem to have got some of them right , with the spectacularly dim Suella Braverman down at 807/1.

Richard Carter ● 2785d

Well, the petition to revoke article 50 might have had ahigh number of petitioners but it didn't do too well last night in the indicative votes.184 for, and 293 against.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2785d

Probably factoring in that Grayling would get ion the wrong train going to the hustings?

Michael Ixer ● 2785d

I fully agree about the hyenas - it's disgustingly transparent that both Rees-Mogg and Johnson are suddenly prepared to get behind May's deal as the 'least bad' option when there's a chance their names will be thrown into the leadership hat. Public or self-serving interest?

Roy Robart ● 2785d

Yes Barbara, that was the result. But, the majority, by far, voted against no-deal (400 to 160), against a managed no-deal (422 to 139) and against the Norway model (377 to 65). If you look closely, you will be surprised to learn that a second referendum lost by 27 votes (295 to 268) and the customs union lost by 8 votes (272 to 264). I think this speaks volumes, considering that many MPs abstained and the ERG suddenly changed its mind to back TM's deal because she promised to go.The way I see it, tomorrow they will vote on TM's WA only.  In my view, if she loses, it is no Brexit then.  But I fear she will not loses, because the spineless and viperous MPs are more interested in leading the Tory party than the future of the country.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2785d

The petition, which drew over six million signatories and was the largest by far ever launched here, was debated on Monday and not even six Conservative MPs could be bothered to turn up for the debate. says it all really.

Richard Carter ● 2778d