Forum Topic

Justine Greening

spoke so well in the emergency Brexit debate this afternoon. Parliament  has been undermined by May's Deal coming back twice already.

Lucille Grant ● 2793d38 Comments

Missed that bit of the debate. We now have the Irish Taoiseach saying Mrs May will make an address later tonight even though earlier Downing Street refused to confirm May was going to make an announcement today. If this was fiction it would be considered too far fetched ...

Michael Ixer ● 2793d

Sorry I missed it, I have an enormous amount of respect for Justine, one of the good ones, whether you agree with everything she believes in or not.  Sick to death of grasping, ambitious politicians only looking to push themselves up the ladder.

Bunny Payne ● 2793d

I missed her too,  but a friend was and said "Justine was fantastic, absolutely brilliant" - and that Dominic Grieve followed her with a gobsmacker of a speech.

Richard Carter ● 2793d

He did. Amazing both of them and Anna Soubry as always. Have to say those Labour, SNP and LibDems who spoke were good too - everyone is furious with May especially as her letter to Tusk requesting the short delay was never discussed in the HoC. Seems like she will bring her twice rejected plan back to Parliament for the third time on Monday.

Lucille Grant ● 2793d

Amazing that she voted with the Labour Party to block a deal with the WTO.

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2793d

Not amazing in the slightest: she was doing her job as an MP, which was to act, in her judgement, in the best interests of the country. And good for her!

Richard Carter ● 2792d

It’s a pity she didn’t act that way when she was in May’s cabinet. We should not forget her abysmal record as a Minister, including being responsible for the under-funding of schools.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2792d

Perhaps Nick. But now we all know how May works perhaps the blame doesn't lie entirely at Justine's door. At least she had the balls to resign from May's disgraceful Government. Listen to her speech yesterday before condemning her.

Lucille Grant ● 2792d

Seat-saving exercise.  The true interests of the country were to enact what the majority wanted - to leave the EU of 28 and trade with 160 nations controlling 98% of the world's trade under tried and tested GATT/WTO rules.  132 other countries are doing fine without the EU, so why shouldn't we?

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2792d

"under tried and tested GATT/WTO rules"Chantal can you name one of these 160 countries that trade solely on WTO terms? Just one would be fine, thanks :)

Matt Palmer ● 2792d

"The true interests of the country were to enact what the majority wanted"That is a common, though complete, misunderstanding of the job of an MP: see Edmund Burke ("Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion" - The Works of the Right Honourable Edmund Burke. Volume I(London: Henry G. Bohn, 1854), pp. 446–48).And would you think MPs should enact capital punishment, for example, since the majority seem to want that?

Richard Carter ● 2792d

Burke died in 1797 and was notoriously sceptical about democracy, believing that the "upper classes" making up government had more intelligence than the "common man".  Little has changed.How do you know that "the majority seem to want" capital punishment?  Have I missed a referendum?

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2792d

Hi Chantal, you forgot to answer my question!Here it is again for you :)"Can you name one of these 160 countries that trade solely on WTO terms?"

Matt Palmer ● 2792d

I disagree with you Chantal.  Justine Greening, agree with her or not, has been very honest and open with her views.  While I would not entirely disagree that all MPs try to safeguard their seats, in Justine's case, she speaks with conviction on properly substantiated arguments and from her heart.As for the WTO, you seem to forget that the EU is one of the members of WTO as is the UK. The UK has not agreements but the EU was them all.  Also, for an agreement to be approved by WTO, it needs the agreement of its Members, or at the very least, that none veto a proposed agreement.  So far, one or two countries have already voiced objections to the UK....

Ivonne Holliday ● 2792d

If I recall (doing this from memory, not checked redfderences) Argentina, Russia, ... have Somme issues with out WTO proposals?

Michael Ixer ● 2792d

Ha ha. There have been many polls indicating that a near-majority favour bringing back the death penalty e.g. (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/08/13/capital-punishment-50-years-favoured).Also, "more than a half of Leave voters want the death penalty brought back after Brexit, according to a new poll.  The YouGov survey also found 42 per cent of those who opted to part ways with the European Union want corporal punishment back in schools and 30 per cent want inefficient light bulbs to return to shop shelves (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-leave-voters-death-penalty-yougov-results-light-bulbs-a7656791.html). What it doesn't say is that 99% of leave voters want to return to the 1950s.

Richard Carter ● 2792d

Matt - I am well aware that most countries trade in their own blocs, using WTO rules.  If some countries have issues it is for WTO officials to resolve them.  Can you name one of these blocs that has its own supranational Parliament like the EU?  From past experience during the Elliott School playing fields sale, I personally have little reason to trust our MP, who in my opinion, may well be more anxious about her slender majority than the interests of the nation.

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2792d

The UK is certainly one of them, together with the parliaments of all its other 27 member states.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2792d

Please get a grip Richard - your posts are becoming somewhat hysterical, and you are making dangerous judgements about 99% of those who voted leave, portraying us all as mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging bigots.  I would remind you that polls are notoriously unreliable as witnessed by those prior to the referendum that told us most people wanted to stay in the EU.

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2792d

Therein lies the problem.

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2792d

Thanks Chantal.So to be clear, you can't name one country that currently trades in the situation that you are advocating for the UK from the 29th March? IE pure WTO without membership of any other trading block.

Matt Palmer ● 2792d

Apologies for typos, wearing wrong glasses (!) - but perhaps predictive text knows something prophetic we don't, changing "some" to "Somme"!

Michael Ixer ● 2792d

"Therein lies the problem?"  That each of the 28 Member States of the EU have their own Parliament?????

Ivonne Holliday ● 2792d

Give over Chantal. Richard's posts are not 'somewhat hysterical'!Yours OTH 'portraying us all as mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging bigots' is laughable if it wasn't such a serious issue we are all facing.How about replying to Matt @10.54 and @10.04? 

Lucille Grant ● 2792d

I find it so depressing when people accuse MPs, Councillors etc of self-serving behaviour or corruption simply for the crime of not agreeing with their own views.  Personally I think she’s a great MP and we’re lucky to have her

Craig Fordham ● 2792d

Thank you Lucille. I've just listened to Justine's speech on the Parliament website. She was brilliant. I watched quite a bit yesterday, but was out in the afternoon, so had you not posted this, I would have missed it.Such a contrast with May's deluded "speech to the nation"

Elizabeth Balsom ● 2792d

My pleasure Elizabeth. We've been riveted by some of the speeches in debates recently. Keir Starmer was also very good. As you say, a complete contrast to May blaming MPs for not supporting her ridiculous Deal.

Lucille Grant ● 2792d

You can keep an eye on what she or any of our MPs say on the Theyworkforyou website.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2792d

Jonathan it's much more entertaining to watch in on BBC Politics, esp Bercow in action #OrderOrder!

Lucille Grant ● 2792d

Quite agree, Craig. She is an excellent MP who puts the interests of her constituents or the country as a whole first. I just think she's in the wrong party.

Jane Carter ● 2792d

Hello Jane,Is Justine Greening in the wrong party?  Or is the party she joined has changed so tremendously.  I still think Justine Greening is an excellent MP who lets us know what she is doing and it is so welcome!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2792d

Hi YvonneYes I think both are true.

Jane Carter ● 2792d

You are probably right, but I think she is great.  She represents Putney incredibly well and has a strong head on her shoulders.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2792d

So which party should she be in, Jane?

Elizabeth Balsom ● 2792d

It’s an interesting question. There was a brief discussion on the Today prog this morning about the future of the two party system. In the short term it will survive but Brexit looks like it has broken it, perhaps irrevocably. The two parties stand in the way of electoral reform given their self interest in preserving first past the post so it’s not clear how reform can take place unless they break up before the next election. I think that’s unlikely but you never know! Currently both parties have shifted from the Blair / Cameron centre ground so in theory there’s a large gap in the middle that needs filling. Nature and politicians abhor a vacuum ... so could the Independent Group Corbyn refuses to be in the room with evolve into a Centre Party and attract more MPs, and crucially, enough votes to become a real force in the next parliament?Maybe something good could yet emerge from the Brexit disaster?

Jonathan Callaway ● 2791d

It’s an interesting question. There was a brief discussion on the Today prog this morning about the future of the two party system. In the short term it will survive but Brexit looks like it has broken it, perhaps irrevocably. The two parties stand in the way of electoral reform given their self interest in preserving first past the post so it’s not clear how reform can take place unless they break up before the next election. I think that’s unlikely but you never know! Currently both parties have shifted from the Blair / Cameron centre ground so in theory there’s a large gap in the middle that needs filling. Nature and politicians abhor a vacuum ... so could the Independent Group Corbyn refuses to be in the room with evolve into a Centre Party and attract more MPs, and crucially, enough votes to become a real force in the next parliament?Maybe something good could yet emerge from the Brexit disaster?

Jonathan Callaway ● 2791d

True but I need the time to watch it all live!

Jonathan Callaway ● 2791d

I have just watched Justine' speech which was outstanding.  But I was struck mostly by the empty chairs in the House.  why were so few MPs present for a critical debate on the future of the country?

Mary McCue ● 2791d