Forum Topic

Open air nightclub on roof of the Exchange

Has everyone seen the planning application by BlackRock/Incipio being slipped through for an open air, large group drinking venue on the roof of Putney Exchange?  3000 people per week, pounding music and lots of alcohol, running noon to midnight seven days a week (11pm on a Sunday).  Wait until they all tip out at midnight, drunk and disorderly.  And the loss of over 50 parking spaces in the car park.No consideration given to the conservation area right next door which should be protected by the planning conditions put in place in the original Exchange development.  And yet Wandsworth Council have given it the nod at pre-planning stage!  What’s that all about?

Jenny Traynor ● 2703d66 Comments

Think they are proposing 7 or 8 ladies loos and 2 + 2 for the men. Is that enough for 550 drinking people?

Jenny Traynor ● 2694d

The noise report assumed a completely enclosed structure, not the non-soundproofed, open air pergola proposed. It also failed to take any readings at ground level in the gardens of Stratford Grove. On these faulty assumptions the report says there would be less noise than there is now! It would actually be more like a 40dB increase which is considered by British standard to be an unacceptable noise increase.

Jenny Traynor ● 2694d

Referring to the toilets situation, the application says "All washroom facilities will be provided within our demise. "which i guess means they will provide their own.

Matt Palmer ● 2694d

See my new thread Matt - thanks for the link.

Lucille Grant ● 2694d

There's an interesting objection from Justine Greening on the planning portal. Talking about the noise tests being a bit fudged. Not sure the link below will work but give it a gohttps://planning.wandsworth.gov.uk/WAM/doc/Application%20Form-5006423.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=5006423&location=VOLUME9&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=2

Matt Palmer ● 2694d

I wonder if anyone has sought to check if all the current pubs/bars and restaurants in Putney are aware of this proposal?It strikes me that some might lose business as a direct result of Pergola as it's opening hours might be 12.00 pm to 12.00 am.

Lucille Grant ● 2694d

Oh Chantal - I was with you right up until your last sentence.

Lucille Grant ● 2694d

I completely agree with Neil.  This is a desperate attempt to compensate for lost revenue from empty and struggling retail units in the Exchange, due to greed, and will not benefit existing shops with increased footfall occurring mainly after they close.  The reduction in parking spaces will drive shoppers elsewhere.Apart from the obvious negative impact on local residents, the issues that concern me are:1.  Security - 500 people will need the loo, which unless facilities are provided on the roof, will entail inebriated (yes - this is primarily a drinking venue) people using the facilities in the Exchange, requiring extra cleaners.  If you have visited these places, the loos are left in a revolting state, and often used for other unsavoury/illegal activities.  When customers leave, they will have to be securely escorted.  I would bet that within the first week, some drunken fool will be locked in for the night. The Police are already over-stretched, so cannot be relied on in an emergency.2.  Access/Health and Safety - As far as I am aware, there are only two lifts and a stairwell, which will be crowded to capacity when revellers leave at midnight.  This will put extra strain on the lifts, causing regular breakdowns, and problems for the disabled and those with buggies.  In the event of a fire, with presumably gas cookers/barBQs on the roof, how will large numbers be evacuated safely?Deliveries to shops now occur mainly at night.  Those leaving in taxis will cause parking issues, making deliveries harder.  An exodus of 500 walking to the nearest tubes and station will add to the existing pressure on already overcrowded system. For those in urgent need of "cool" - take a short trip on the District Line to The Prince right by West Brompton tube, where an existing pub has been expanded to house 800 revellers.  The situation in Putney would be completely different, using a shopping centre, currently closed after dark, not an existing F&B outlet, with existing appropriate facilities.This application will suck the life out of nearby pubs and eateries, and add to existing antisocial behaviour, making Putney far less family friendly after dark.  Who would wish to take their children to the new Odeon on a Friday or Saturday evening?Putney as a whole will not benefit in any way from this unthought-out, self-seeking application based on corporate greed.  Object.I hope that all those who moan endlessly about aircraft noise, will be top of the list.

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2694d

The only people seeking to - and who will potentially- benefit from this are Blackrock.  Local residents will be adversely affected by noise pollution, further severe constraints on parking availability and increased anti social behaviour.  Existing local venues can only be negatively affected by which a facility and I'd rather retain the Coat + Badge, Jolly Gardeners, Spotted Horse than facilitate this folly.  There are adequate leisure and drinking facilities already in Putney.The shopping centre could be turned into a rolling parade of staggering drunkards at all hours of opening, which is hardly going to benefit the incumbent tenants.The proposal is a nonsense, we've objected and hope others locally will also be stirred into action. The consultation deadline is pending on the 12th April

Neil Moulding ● 2694d

Comparing Pergola to the Coat is utterly naive. Anyone who's been to Pergola knows that it's way louder and gets a lot more messy. Also, good luck "trying out the concept" and then revoking the license once you realize what Pergola really is. Reality is that's not how this works - once you've granted the license it's very difficult to get rid of due to the economic interests involved.Please do more research before you make up your mind. This is not anything like your local neighbourhood pub.

Sjoerd de Koning ● 2695d

I have held parties at both their venues in White City and Paddington over the last 2 years and can assure you that there is plenty of drinking and dancing. It is aimed at large group parties which is why they don't charge you any table fee (which nightclubs usually do). In fact, I received a marketing email just this week from them stating 'we take bookings for up to 199 people, free of charge!' I am not opposed to the concept which I think works well in non-residential areas.

Anna Ramsay ● 2695d

I have held parties at both of their venues in White City and Paddington and can assure you that alcohol is indeed served without food. The bar is the central feature of the venues and food is served at separate pop up stalls.

Anna Ramsay ● 2695d

The Pergola in Paddington reopens for spring/summer shortly and no doubt in White City too https://www.standard.co.uk/go/london/restaurants/rooftop-venue-pergola-paddington-returns-with-free-beer-and-margaritas-a3805741.html  The West Brompton venue is on the roof of a pub, so maybe that's why it's a permanent structure.

Lucille Grant ● 2696d

James, intrigued by your post. I must have missed the restricted opening times in the application - where about did you see that it would not be open all year? The application is for full permission, not anything temporary. Mind you, it’s the warm summer months when it definitely will be open that windows to bedrooms will also be open. Also, it’s a nice idea that it will only be as loud as the Coat and Badge but having visited the West Brompton venue I can assure you that it is really loud!! You struggle to speak to the person next to you so dancing or not, it’s pretty noisy!

Jenny Traynor ● 2696d

I agree Tina, looks amazing. Seems a shame for it to be stopped, before it’s even tried to see if it works. This could a really good draw to the area, young people travelling by public transport (as they are having a drink) doesn’t effect parking or congestion. Riverside bars are a Huge draw in the  summer why not capitalise on the that.

Claire Morgan ● 2696d

Now that I've seen the website I think it's a really nice idea, provided the noise levels are strictly monitored.  There's no reason it should be any noisier than the Coat & Badge which has music playing with the doors open in summer.  It's only a temporary set up so let's give it a try this summer, keep a close eye on the potential problems and then not have it again if it upsets people.

Tina Stevens ● 2696d

I'm NOT in favour of this develeopment's location but I would like to correct the repeated incorrect description of this as a 'nightclub' It is not. There's no dancing involved and therefore no volume levels you'd associate with that sort of thing.They are also clear about opening periods which are NOT all year.This is their website should you need assurance. https://pergolalondon.com/

James G Francis ● 2696d

As a relatively local resident I can only wonder what people living in Stratford Grove or Lifford street must make of this.  The application seems so different to the original pop up food idea, in my understanding anyway, and adding drinking and music until 11.00-12.00 every night in an open air venue may make it hard for many to open windows or use their gardens.As is the planning application is extremely onerous for locals, whilst the original words were different.  A smaller venue, with more tightly controlled music and noise levels and numbers I think would be a lot less worrying.Thank you for highlighting on this thread.  I have submitted a comment and hope many more do so that this scheme. Is subjected to proper scrutiny and has sensible restrictions put in place to preserve sanity for locals.  Not sure what this would do for the people who do still drive to shop in Putney but can’t see it being that positive for the existing paying tenants of the exchange.The idea on their website looks fine, but maybe openair next to a quiet residential neighbourhood is slightky wrong for such an enterprise

Mike Warman ● 2696d

Have used the car park for many years, and it is nearly always full.  A reduction of spaces will impact negatively on retailers already struggling with the high rents/rates imposed by Blackrock.I usually bus or walk to the High Street, so don't live near the application site, but will object to support local residents, whose lives will be made difficult by not only the loud music in or near a Conservation Area, but the inevitable smoke and smells from the food being cooked.  Wrong reasons, wrong place.

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2697d

I agree. And wish we had a Bayley & Sage too.

Caroline Whitehead ● 2698d

Wish an M and S Food would be attracted to the Exchange.

Jane Carter ● 2698d

That's my feeling too Sandra - enough people already shop in East Sheen because parking is free. The Exchange owners need to up their game to attract retail outlets to the shops already there, rather than the night time trade otherwise Putney as a shopping centre will die.

Lucille Grant ● 2698d

I park in the Putney Exchange on a weekly basis, mid week.  The lower level parking is usually full, whilst the top level is do-able, albeit busy.  It's a convenient way for me to do my grocery shopping, plus achieve other errands in the High Street and Putney Exchange.  If this scheme makes it difficult, then I will park at Waitrose in Sheen, which is free anyway.  If other shoppers are like minded, then this will surely mean loss of revenue to struggling businesses in the Putney Exchange and PHS in general.  I sincerely feel for those living in the vicinity of this outlandish scheme.

Sandra Edwards ● 2698d

I do think the parking argument is a weak one.Obviously it is only the words of the potential developers, but the fact they report the major under use of the carpark seems tie in with what I have witnessed the couple of times over the last year I have used it and what others on the forum also report?Surely the draw of Putney during the day and again at night is the amazing transport links in every direction and at all hours... issues with parking are always going to an there no matter what when living with in 10 mins walk to any high street - I can only assume changing to longer residents parking hours would solve it?

Jessica Coleman ● 2698d

I think the problem lies more that the day time shopping experience leaves much to desire (and the proposed loss of  limited parking for shopping is not going to help attract good retailers) there are already plenty of decent places to eat and drink in the evening in Putney. Personally, while it looks a fun place (it is aimed at Millennials according to their website) I'm just not sure it's the right location. Reading the planning statement it appears they expect  people to use public transport therefore not having an impact on parking in streets around the Exchange. I do wonder how realistic this will be knowing of the pressure neighbourhood streets already suffer.

Lucille Grant ● 2698d

I’ve noticed on here that people quite vocal about the lack of ‘quality’ or higher end shops based in Putney and also the uninspiring names currently occuping the Exchange... bringing more people to Putney on an evening of food, drinks and fun will surely open their eyes to the rest of what Putney has to offer and then the brands will want to invest? I’ve discovered some amazing parts of London to explore and shop at during the day through visiting them on evenings out - why wouldn’t Putney be the same?

Jessica Coleman ● 2698d

My final word lol - does Putney want huge numbers of visitors in the evening to this  proposed rooftop venue?From http://incipio-group.co.uk/ website“Charlie Gardiner and his team at Incipio have been an absolute delight to work with over the last year both creatively and professionally.  He has created London’s most exciting roof terrace restaurant experience with Pergola on the Roof at Television Centre, which has brought more than 90,000 Londoners to our rooftop car park in three months." Alistair Shaw, Managing Director of Television Centre

Lucille Grant ● 2698d

Indeed, Lucille. No mention of ‘nightclub’. Or discotheque. Or dancing. Or live music. That mission statement sells it to me. What a great resource for Putney. Frankly I can’t wait for it to open.

Andrew Thomas ● 2698d

Hi Jenny - I've just checked Pergola West Brompton and it belongs to the same company (Incipio) as the Paddington Pergola. However as the West Brompton venue is an extension of a pub that has been there for a long time I'm guessing objection from residents in nearby streets weren't considered valid. Putney Exchange car park on the other hand is a different matter and I would support any resident objecting to an evening open air entertainment venue there. The consultation that Alison attended seems to have  well and truly pulled the wool over people's eyes.

Lucille Grant ● 2698d

Have you looked at the planning application Andrew? Informed comment is indeed refreshing and facts even more soThis is the planning report/sales pitch (23 pp) submitted and it's an interesting read https://planning.wandsworth.gov.uk/WAM/doc/Report-4982524.pdf extension=.pdf&id=4982524&location=VOLUME9&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1The company who wishes to open this venue has one rooftop venue open in Paddington to date with two more opening this summerhttps://pergolalondon.com/Their mission statement: 'Introducing drinking and dining into a new era…Our mission is to take unloved and unused spaces and turn them into unique, big and beautiful destinations ~ restaurants, bars, city skylines, atmosphere, music, seating for all and general good times – all under our iconic pergola.'Not sure that  the Exchange Car Park can be termed as unloved and unused by drivers into Putney but who knows! As far as I was aware  parking availability in Putney near the High Street is  often dire. Perhaps the Exchange's owners see more bucks to be made by renting  out car park spaces to this venue instead?

Lucille Grant ● 2698d

Hi Alison. Yes that probably was what you were told at the consultation- it all seemed such a nice idea! However, the application doesn’t reflect that at all - no mention of only for the summer, or that you have to buy food before drink. If you visit the other venue in West Brompton you’ll see the reality of what they’re proposing and I’m afraid it’s as I said st at the top of the thread. There’s a reason they didn’t tell it like it is!

Jenny Traynor ● 2698d

Thanks Alison. Informed comment is so refreshing.

Andrew Thomas ● 2698d

I haven't read every response, but I went to the consultation in the Exchange about this, and it was three 'pop up' restaurants that would be opening for a few months (probably for summer time) before changing to a different three restaurants/eateries. More like a food court in a shopping centre. We were told that noise is kept under control with hoardings that protect neighbours, and that if there are complaints, the Council can shut them down. They said no alcohol served without food. Yes, entry is through the main Exchange entrance, to the lifts and escalators, with security guards ensuring that's the only place people go. I didn't think of asking re toilet facilities - that's only just occurred to me. Don't know whether they'll have that on the roof, or if guards will have to escourt people to the Exchange public toilets. There was nothing mentioned about nightclubs!  And the loss of 50 parking spaces is apparently not a problem. No one has seen the car park full recently, and they said they did daily checks, and it wasn't ever full. I'll have to have a look at the application to see if that's diffferent to what we were told.

Alison Fraser ● 2698d

Andrew - there are already plenty of bars/pubs/restaurants etc open during the evening to cater for entertainment in Putney. Daft to compare Putney to places ike Esher or other (sterile?) suburbs where the streets are silent past 8.00 pm apart from the odd pub and restaurant.

Lucille Grant ● 2699d

This company is not in the nightclub business. Obviously if it’s your neighbourhood (and I will admit that while it’s walking distance for me, it isn’t shouting distance) then one has a right to be concerned. But there is a slight element of scaremongering going on here. If we didn’t allow for developments like these we would see our neighbourhood become a very sterile place indeed. We do, after all, choose to live in Zone2 rather than somewhere like Esher or Weybridge.

Andrew Thomas ● 2699d

This phrase 'pop up' makes me laugh. Developers use it more and more to try and sound trendy. A pop up is a temporary enterprise, usually lasting about a month. This definitely does not sound temporary?

emarisa Battoia ● 2699d

The planning number is 2018/0905. And it may not be described as a nightclub but it’s a late night bar playing loud music until midnight with large groups of people.  I wonder why they haven’t called it a nightclub...... Who knows? Perhaps they think people might not mind it so much if they call it a pop-up food market?

Jenny Traynor ● 2699d

What's the planning application number pls ?

Penelope Becker ● 2700d

I'm only repeating what's up thread. Glad to know it's not a nightclub.

Lucille Grant ● 2700d

I don't quite understand, Lucille, how you can be so certain it’s going to be a nightclub. It’s not described as a nightclub nor is the company in the business of running nightclubs.

Andrew Thomas ● 2701d

I agree Craig - but a nightclub (not just an open air venue which could mean anything) suggests much later  opening/closing times.I remember I used to go out at 9.00 pm not leave to come home :-)With the number of objections on file I think it is unlikely this application will get the go ahead as it stands.

Lucille Grant ● 2701d

I cautiously welcome the idea.  Given the number of residents nearby, I’d be staggered if any sort of late night licence was granted, however an open air venue, like the ones in Peckham and Shoreditch, which was allowed to open until c.9pm would be a welcome addition to Putney.

Craig Fordham ● 2701d

Your delight - horror for the rest of us.

Alexander MacLeod ● 2701d

What a great idea. Frank’s on the top of the car park in Peckham works really well, and I’m a big fan of Dalston Roof Park. Both are great, seem to operate fairly smoothly without major disruption to those who live nearby. I’m delighted that something like this is coming to Putney - now I won’t have to schlep our East on the ginger line.

Andrew Thomas ● 2701d

Crazy indeed Tina.  From what I hear Blackrock are charging a huge amount for the Exchange retail paces, hence so many are empty.  Trying to rake in cash using a  designated parking area directly above them would only compound the problem.

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2702d

This wouldn't even be a proposal if The Exchange got its act together and started making money from the shops it's alredy got. So many are empty or occupied by pop-ups, which surely suggests it's being badly managed. That 'magnificent flagship store' on two floors in the corner has never been occupied! Crazy. When the most enterprising idea on the table is to put a gazebo on the roof, you know you've really got problems.

Tina Stevens ● 2702d

The main difference is that it is an open air, plastic consturction sited on the roof top playing loud music.  The noise will travel far and wide, especially in the evening/night.  Those other venues you mention are brick buildings and at ground level.  I think the scale of this (550) is considerably larger than say The Coat and Badge or Jolly Gardeners. I don't think they are aloud to play music outside?  And as you say, Putney already has plenty late evening venues so not sure the value of another, especially when it is so intrusive.

Jenny Traynor ● 2702d

Just for sake of clarity, hasn’t Putney already got late night bars at the top end of the high street, the all along the section towards the bottom end opposite Putney Bridge Rd and also set off behind the Exchange it’s self in the Coat & Badge and Jolly Gardeners - most open until 2am ish (or so my boys say!) What difference to street noise, yobbish behaviour or taxi traffic will this new venture make?

Jessica Coleman ● 2702d

The description is misleading - there will be three small fast food vendors in the corners of the venue but the main focus is a central bar, seating for 550 and loud music.  No food or drinks will be allowed to be taken off site but how that will actually work in practice is anyone’s guess! And yes, taxis will no doubt sit in the already full roads off the High Street.

Jenny Traynor ● 2702d

Re: the Pop Up Food Lead Market, what does that mean?  Are they going to be preparing food to be collected by scooters?  If so, this will also add to the late night noise in the neighbourhood - I find the scooter noise of the deliveries really irritating as there are so many of them.  Presumably, taxis will be lining up somewhere to take drinkers home.  Where?

Martine Guy ● 2702d

I read one very interesting objection comment on the planning portal - when permission was given for the  car park it was that it should remain so and not change. There are  a good many objections thankfully but the more the better.

Lucille Grant ● 2702d

No one is against development but it has to be the right development in the right location and not at any cost. The other venues run by this company are all next the railway lines, commercial spaces. This proposal is completely inappropriate here. Planning conditions were considered necessary when the exchange was built to allow it to operate harmoniously with the residential areas around. Those restrictions were felt to be essential then so not sure what’s changed. Don’t see that the people of Putney get anything from this except noise, parking headaches and pavement pizzas.

Jenny Traynor ● 2702d

Im going to be a bit controversial as well, I posted something similar on the MacDonald’s late license discussion on the forum in December. I think people that live near a high street, or on riverfronts etc where there are bars and restaurants should expect that there will be noise from those types of establishments. Putney has to compete. Is it not better to live next to a thriving high street that Is trying to attract new business and trade (be that a move towards nighttime economy if so) then a high street that will slowly become converted to a soulless residential thoroughfare if no one comes here anymore. The traditional high street has to change to survive, and if putney can’t compete with the daytime economy of competing areas, the night time economy seems the only other option. Clapham junction, Brixton, Wimbledon, Fulham, all have late night economies next to residential areas, but I suspect the demographic in those places next to the busier places is now younger than Putneys, and that’s problematic cusp that putney is teetering on currently.

Claire Morgan ● 2702d

It closes at midnight but I take your point. The difference to the places you mention are size (550 patrons), music system that gets louder in line with the noise of the crowd, on a roof top open to the air. Noise really carries at night especially into quiet residential area. Imagine your neighbours having a party to midnight every night while you try to get the kids and yourself to sleep with windows open in the summer heat and you’ll get the idea. Not really the same as the local pubs which don’t have music blasting away.

Jenny Traynor ● 2703d

At the risk of playing devil's advocate, a venue that closes at 11pm could hardly be termed a night club. I understand the concerns about noise, but is it really any different to people drinking outside at places like the Coat & Badge, Dukes Head and the Jolly Gardeners ?

Mike Harris ● 2703d

I agree but sadly it will appeal to large groups on a night out drinking. And they’ve managed to get away with putting it to the rear of the shopping centre, away from the High Street but right next to the conservation area.

Jenny Traynor ● 2703d

It seems a very ambitious and extremely optimistic application to me. Open air nightclubs work in countries that enjoy warm balmy nights for much of the year but they're not practical here. We're lucky to get a few concurrent weeks of high temps so the window of opportunity to make money is very limited. Sitting on a roof wrapped in a cardie and breathing in all the pollutants from the High Street doesn't sound very appealing to me.

Sue Hammond ● 2703d

Always worth a try I’m sure. But it’s the noise that this venue will create, impacting the local residential neighbourhood and the inevitable antisocial behaviour of a mass of people spilling out on to the High Street and surrounds that are the real issues.

Jenny Traynor ● 2703d

They could probably renegotiate their leases, after all their insurance premiums must go up now that the Exchange won't be secured overnight.

Simon Knight ● 2703d

Not sure they can do much about it.  The proposal is to override the planning conditions relating to use of the car park and hours of opening. The pre planning application got the thumbs up from the council!

Jenny Traynor ● 2703d

Hmm, can't see that arrangement sitting too well with the shops there.

Simon Knight ● 2703d

They will go in through the main doors of the shopping centre by H&M then in to the lifts and up to the roof.  Security guards will monitor the queue and presumably behaviour. They leave by the same way up until midnight. All 550 or so of them.

Jenny Traynor ● 2703d

So how will people actually get up there given that the Exchange closes at around 8pm?

Simon Knight ● 2703d

More details can be found here http://www.putneysw15.com/info/planningpergola001.htm

PutneySW15 Editor ● 2703d

I do. It’s 2018/0905 but don’t be fooled by the misleading title for a “pop-up food led market”.  It’s for a bar in a pergola with a retractable roof and a loud thumping music system and permanent in nature.

Jenny Traynor ● 2703d

Do you have the 8 digit planning application number please Jenny?

Chantal Blake-Milton ● 2703d